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Choosing the Right Wall Anchors
- bch 5y agoUgh - I’m living this right now trying to figure out the best (or “a good”) way to hang new interior doors into so-called steel studs, which are actually just box-section aluminum.
- jessaustin 5y agoI've had good luck with "Timely" brand door frames: https://www.timelyframes.com/architects/application/app-metal-stud/ https://www.timelyframes.com/architects/application/app-meta...
- bch 5y agoI appreciate you sharing your experience. Unfortunately(?) I picked prehung doors to go in (everybody was made aware of the installation environment), so I’ve got-what-I’ve-got at this moment. Unclear if I got suckered or not. I told my vendor what I was dealing with, where I wanted end, a never any flags raised. Getting help is like pulling teeth - this all seems simple enough (though I’m not going to assume there’s nothing to know - I’m no expert) which makes it all the more frustrating.
- jessaustin 5y agoIf the problem is just getting something that will hold in metal studs, I'd go with some nice beefy (say 3/8" diameter? that will seem like overkill to some people) self-tapping metal screws. Set the drag on your drill or impact so it stops before bottoming out, then go the rest of the way carefully so you don't strip out the hole.
- bch 5y agoVery likely I’ll do something like this. Very frustrating to me the “experts” I’m working with can’t satisfy my fear here, but perhaps I’m overthinking it. I’m not too worried about a catastrophic cockup as much as some slight annoyance that I’ll have to live with forever, and then somebody coming out of the woodwork saying “oh, you should have…” ;)
- oaiey 5y agoFunny how concrete walls are just a last chapter low content part. Most of us Europeans fight very hard battles against concrete walls and using the right anchor is quite a thing.
- blue1 5y agoAlso, I was surprised not to see the magic word "Fischer" mentioned anywhere.
- TorKlingberg 5y agoThe Duo Power plastic anchors shown in the article are made by Fischer. I used to live in an old building in Sweden where the external walls were made of thick concrete containing large stones and straw(!) The cheap drill bits I had did not last for long.
- sysadmindotfail 5y agoUS (Florida) checking in. A hammer drill is your friend. Once you spend a few decades in concrete houses, everything else seems cheap and suspect.
- sam_lowry_ 5y agoChemical anchors are not covered. They are often the only solution for older brick walls.
- stinos 5y agoAlso tends to work for 'hollow' brick (the ones with cavities) walls. Now, apart from just being a solution, it should be mentioned that this is probably the only solution which both has sub-mm accuracy for positioning and combines it with ridiculous strength without elasticity. As in: you drill a hole, fill it, put a steel bar in it, positioning it with e.g. small pieces of wood, wait until hardened, and the thing won't ever move again in no direction. None of the typical issues like plastic and other plugs having some slack, old bricks being notoriously uneven making it extremely hard to get a hole drilled exactly at the spot you want (which is impossible anyway if you land on the edge of stone and mortar). Cons: pricey. Also most of the time it's complete overkill, I admit I like doing that just for peace of mind though :)
- harvie 5y agoThis is my choice usualy: ==== Light duty ==== - Just screw to drywall (no anchor) - cheap hammer-in anchor for concrete and hollow bricks (cheap plastic anchor and special screw with "one-way thread" that can be quickly hammered in like nail, but still can be tightened and/or (un)screwed like normal screw if needed) ==== Heavy duty ==== - Expanding bolts for concrete - Molly bolts for drywall ==== Super heavy duty ==== - Chemical anchor in concrete or bricks
- hoseja 5y ago(for dry"wall") Also, the correct answer is this: https://www.fischer-international.com/en/products/standard-fixings/plastic-fixings/universal-plug-ux https://www.fischer-international.com/en/products/standard-f...
- jmchuster 5y agoI find video is the easiest for eyeballing how well they actually hold up. https://youtu.be/QQWIZNlf9ZE?t=480 https://youtu.be/QQWIZNlf9ZE?t=480 There's also an aspect of how straightforward or finicky they are. So some designs have high risk of user error, so for the average homeowner, they end up on average with worse outcomes.
- devwastaken 5y agoHeavily recommend always supporting with studs. Just a simple 1" (actually 3/4") thick board between the studs will be far more supportive than drywall. Also don't use drywall screws for anything other than drywall. Use torx screws when putting wood to wood/studs.
- djrogers 5y ago> Use torx screws when putting wood to wood/studs Torx is a type of driver and head, not a type of screw. You can buy 'Torx' screws for sheet metal, drywall, wood, or just about anything else, so just looking at the head is not a good idea. I think what you're trying to recommend are quality construction type screws like Spax or GRK with Torx heads.
- bradstewart 5y agoIt is way too easy to strip a philips head screw going into wood, so maybe they did mean torx head? Most of the torx screws you'll find in boxes at a hardware store are deck screws anyway (at least around here), which are really good for attaching wood to wood. Good to be careful though.
- jcrawfordor 5y agoA tip it took me too long to learn: using an impact driver will make it easier to avoid stripping Phillips screws than using a drill/driver. The way the impact driver delivers impulses at high torque just makes it easier to keep the bit properly engaged, since it kind of "resets" between each impact. The effect was so dramatic to me that the frustration saved was more than worth the cost of a mid-range cordless impact driver. But a lot of carpenters do prefer square or torx drive just to avoid the whole problem.
- bradstewart 5y agoI honestly hadn't thought about this, will give it a shot. I have a decent impact driver that came with my drill, and hardly ever use it. Thanks for the tip! (although I will keep buying torx screws for the most part :D)
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y agoInteresting to see the correct advice here for hanging stuff from metal studs. So much of the advice on the internet about this suggests using toggle bolts, but it's actually fine to just use sheetmetal screws directly into sheetmetal studs. You can find datasheets online about how much weight each screw will hold into a given thickness of steel, but it's often surprisingly high -- more than 150lb for even fairly small screws into 25ga steel. For example: https://www.amsisupply.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ASO-1-Data-Sheet.pdf https://www.amsisupply.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ASO-1-...
- par 5y agoSpeaking from experience, using sheet metal screws in metal studs only works sometimes. A lot of the time the screw doesn't catch, and if you apply a horizontal pulling force, you can just pull the whole thing out. We had mounted some closet brackets to metal studs using sheet metal screws, and it held for a while. But eventually the brackets came out of the wall. We went back in with toggles and it's all good.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y agoI haven't personally experienced what you describe, and I hope I don't! One thing that I have read is that you have be really careful about not making too large a pilot hole.
- aikinai 5y agoThis is missing staples! I'm not sure if there's anything similar available in other countries, but I swear by this staple-based wall-mount product sold in Japan[0]. Right now I have a 55" TV wall-mounted with nothing but staples. [0]https://kabebijin.net/products/detail.php?product_id=122 https://kabebijin.net/products/detail.php?product_id=122
- Cthulhu_ 5y agoAre those staples expanding or serrated or something? And how deep do they go? I wouldn't put up a TV with those myself, the one I have now is attached with eight bolts going in err, over 5 cm deep into solid concrete walls. Of course the TV itself is hanging on the bracket with just two bolts, held down with gravity and some thin metal wire retainers. It wobbles when touched.
- 8note 5y agoI think your main worry is breaking the drywall/changing the angle, rather than the staples pulling out or shearing off. It's not like TVs are very heavy, and the weight adds to the friction forces holding the staples in. Especially if the staple has to pull upwards to be removed, it's unlikely to be going anywhere unless the material falls out from under it
- aikinai 5y agoThey're regular, small staples not going in particularly deep, but the aggregate friction is enough to hold it very firmly. Here's a video of a guy pulling on it so hard his (admittedly thin) wall flexes[0]. I forgot if it was this video or another one; I've seen someone hanging from it to test the strength. [0] https://youtu.be/uYYhNf9GVZY?t=469 https://youtu.be/uYYhNf9GVZY?t=469
- onion2k 5y agoWhen you're mounting something the important thing is that the stress is distributed across the mounts in a way that means no single component is receiving more weight than it can take. Using lots and lots of 'weak' mounts like staples is just as secure as using eight bolts, but in the case of the staples the load is distributed across more of the wall. If the wall itself is the weak point then that's more secure.
- seized 5y agoGripIt anchors are very good as well, they didn't review those. They are a bit tricky to install if the drywall is thicker or you end up near a stud. Bit they feel sturdy once installed. I've used them for dressers, free standing shelves, etc when a stud didn't line up. https://www.gripitfixings.com/ https://www.gripitfixings.com/
- rawling 5y agoYeah, the advantage of these is when you don't have the depth _behind_ the drywall you need to poke through one of the toggles, or even the tip of one of the self-drilling anchors. I'm just dreading ever taking my shelf down.
- jessaustin 5y agoEvery product on that site is marked "Sold Out"?
- throwawaysea 5y agoThere’s a great YouTube channel called “Project Farm” where this person performs systematic reviews of products in a given category, usually relating to home improvement. Here’s his video on drywall anchors: https://youtu.be/lHb-Tcvkn7M https://youtu.be/lHb-Tcvkn7M
- dkdbejwi383 5y agoI’ve used Geefix for installing floating cabinets in the bathroom, which weren’t mentioned in the article. They claim to hold a lot of weight: https://www.geefix.com/ https://www.geefix.com/
- derwiki 5y agoI was surprised they don’t advertise their strength rating on their main site
- dkdbejwi383 5y agoDepends if you consider "one adult man" as a unit of measurement Edit: they do actually have some numbers, the last image in this photo gallery here: https://www.geefix.com/gallery/ https://www.geefix.com/gallery/ I think this is just down to bad/amateur website design
- djrogers 5y agoI think the goal of this article was to highlight options that US buyers would have at their local home improvement or hardware stores. I've seen every one of the recommended items at Lowes or Home Depot over the past several decades, and have never heard of nor seen Geefix (which, btw, looks like a simple variation of the pull toggles highlighted in the article).
- bradfa 5y agoGeefix are easy to source on Amazon and other online retailers. But yeah, not at Home Depot or Lowe's. But then again, most wood workers (target of audience of that website) probably already source the tools and materials they use from a variety of non-big-box stores.
- Stratoscope 5y agoVery interesting article, I learned a lot from it. No mention of Command Strips; I was curious to see if the author had any opinion on them. I've used them with some success in the past when I didn't want to put a hole in a wall. Anyone have any knowledge of their pros and cons? One "con" I know of is just a matter of technique: when you remove one, don't pull it away from the wall! Pull it straight down against the wall, slowly. https://command.com/ https://command.com/ If nothing else, DOS old-timers will get a kick out of that domain name!
- akx 5y agoI have a lot of painted brick wall I'm hesitant to drill into. Command strips have worked absolutely fine (and also come off without a trace if need be) for relatively light loads such as paintings and other decoration, but two Command hooks could not hold up a laundry drying rack that weighs about 3 kg despite technically rated to do so.
- Stratoscope 5y agoInteresting that they have worked for you on painted brick! That seems like a much rougher surface than the drywall I've used them on.
- XorNot 5y agoCurious if the strip failed or the paint on the brick failed?
- akx 5y agoThat was actually not on the painted brick wall, but just... painted particleboard, I think? Either way, the strips failed, not the paint.
- sjs382 5y agoThey're generally designed for that weight with the forces going straight toward the floor (like hanging a picture, a hook for a broom, a coat hook or something). The further you have that weight from the wall, the less weight it can hold.
- Cthulhu_ 5y agoI had hollow / drywall walls in my old house (it was an older house that had an extra layer built inwards, if that makes any sense), and figuring out what to use was a bit of a pain. But, I managed to hang up some pretty heavy stuff on there. The one thing was a kitchen cabinet with a fold-out door that would carry all my plates and the like - 30+ kilos? Up to 50? And since it's ikea stuff, it only needed two screws at the top! I tried plugs that look like the self-drilling anchors described in the article, they ended up taking out a big chunk of the wall, whoops. We settled on the plastic butterfly anchors (number 1 on the picture), which held up just fine - but I did live in constant fear that the wall would give in.
- omnimus 5y agoWatch out for this. We had badly installed top cabinets loaded with plates and glasses. Its been fine for years. One night i wake up to sounds of apocalypse... Cabinets falling one by one breaking everything inside. Just like some controlled demolition. Plates and glasses can be quite expensive :((
- shellfishgene 5y agoSurely no one installs cabinets with just screwing into the drywall and not into the studs, or some other more solid part?
- magicalhippo 5y agoThat assumes the cabinets and studs line up. Previous place we were not so lucky when redecorating our kitchen. We used quality anchors as well as placing an extra horizontal wooden "beam" below the cabinets for them to rest on, to minimize any vertical load on the anchors. The beam we could easily attach to the studs. Held up for the years we lived there, even with lots of plates and such.
- jessaustin 5y agoThis seems insane to me. Any cabinet wider than 16" (or in extreme cases 24") is going to overlap with at least one stud. Why not screw into that stud? Any wood cabinet has a perfectly usable cross-piece for that purpose at both the top and bottom. If the cabinet is narrower than 16" I suppose you could chance it but I'd prefer to just move it sideways until it overlapped a stud.
- diziet 5y agoAlso relevant from the amazing Project Farm youtube tester: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHb-Tcvkn7M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHb-Tcvkn7M
- antattack 5y agoThe best wall anchor review I've seen.
- rootusrootus 5y agoThat's an excellent video, and an excellent channel overall, I love his stuff. One thing that is left out of the video (and maybe isn't as useful as I think it is, I guess) is how much damage the anchors do when nothing goes wrong. Assuming you use them for a while, then need to remove them and patch up the result, what are you in for? Some of them come out clean with a small hole, some are going to leave parts in the wall forever, and I imagine mollies might actually do a fair amount of damage to get them out.
- js2 5y agoDrywall anchors that cannot be easily removed, you should push through the drywall, not try to remove them. As a homeowner, it’s also worth learning basic drywall repair skills. You can buy 2’ x 2’ pieces of drywall and remove and replace a section between studs pretty easily. Learning to tape and mud properly so that it doesn’t show after painting is the hardest part and takes some practice.
- janandonly 5y agoTwo things to add: 1. There is a pdf, which you can download here: https://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/pdf/405146/W291_Choosing-the-right-wall-anchors.pdf https://www.finewoodworking.com/membership/pdf/405146/W291_C... 2. While reading this I wondered why we don't have specialized quality magazines like this in Europe? I guess that America only has two big languages (Spanish and English) whereas Europa has many. So writing any article for a wide public is impossible without an army of transistors
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- emaginniss 5y agoZe Quebecois would like to know your location
- buildsjets 5y agoI do not believe that America has annexed Quebec. Yet.
- locallost 5y agoLike others, I also thought it was funny this guide is almost completely for drywall or in general not for concrete/brick type walls. Says something about the differences in house building in the US vs rest of the world. I now live in an apartment with drywall for the first time in my life, after about 15 other places. The one thing I noticed is that those self drilling anchors are rated for a much higher weight than those that I use. In the article they are 50+ lbs and over here 8kg, so around 15 lbs. Don't know if there's a detail I'm missing.
- stackedinserter 5y agoBecause it's never ending battle with drywall here in US/Canada. It's virtually impossible to hang anything heavier than a picture frame unless there's a stud at that specific location. Nothing from that review works for dynamic load, like a vacuum cleaner mount or a coat rack. Drywall sucks. I miss my concrete walls.
- frosted-flakes 5y agoWhy does drywall suck? It's durable, easily patchable, cheap, easy to install or modify, and takes paint well. And pretty much any drywall anchor will work to mount a vacuum cleaner charging mount or coat rack to the wall without any issues.
- kansface 5y agoLike OP suggested, dry wall anchors don't do well with dynamic loads. Every time you put that vacuum back, you will crumble a bit of drywall and weaken your anchors.
- frosted-flakes 5y agoMy experience says otherwise.
- kansface 5y ago
- teekert 5y agoThis is very useful, wish I would have had it before I did a major reconstruction. That said, after 1-2 weeks of working with wood, concrete and bricks, you know exactly what you need and develop a feel for it very quickly. Initially just ask at the construction store, and just start.
- user3939382 5y agoHere’s a great video on the same subject if you’re interested. This guy’s data-driven approach to these types of tests is awesome: https://youtu.be/lHb-Tcvkn7M https://youtu.be/lHb-Tcvkn7M
- kevinmchugh 5y agoThanks for this. Anchor comparisons are common for diy/carpentry channels. Like you said, the data here makes this a stand out. The takeaway from these videos in my mind is that when you're hanging something with substantial weight, you really should consider putting your screws into studs.
- mattlondon 5y agoNot all plugs are created equal. I've found loads are total garbage. The only brand I have found that reliably works into brick and plaster are Fischer plugs. If I buy something that already comes with plugs, they go straight into the bin and I use my own screws and matching plugs. Fischer has a lot of technical information freely and publicly available on their website for their screws too (e.g. https://fiproductmedia.azureedge.net/media/Certification%20Documents/DOP%20Documents/fischer/ZD_DOP_POWER-FAST-II-1_F_SEN_AIP_V1.pdf https://fiproductmedia.azureedge.net/media/Certification%20D...). This is pleasing when you are mounting something that needs to take a lot of weight (shelves, large mirrors etc) and you want piece of mind. Highly recommended - I've basically chucked everything else out and now have 3 different sized Fischer plugs and a variety of matching screws (pan head, counter sunk etc) to meet all my needs. I am not a pro - just a DIYer who has had multiple failures in the past from cheap-ass plugs and screws who initially blamed themselves. Turns out you CAN blame the tools (well - fixings in this case) since quality fixings solved my problems.
- parhamn 5y agoAre you in the US? There is usually a stud every 16 inches or so here, which obviates the need for too many anchors. Excluding small picture frames, I can't think of a use case where I'd rely on an anchor (you usually bridge studs for anything smaller but heavy).
- mattlondon 5y agoNo studs in walls made of bricks! The whole thing is solid all the way along so just put things where you want. I think that is fairly common in Europe, although I know that timber construction is getting more common in the past decade or two.
- butwhywhyoh 5y agoAre there studs in your brick wall? Interesting.
- parhamn 5y ago
- jessaustin 5y agoThey're kind of fiddly to install, but when an inspector demanded additional handicap grab bars for which we hadn't installed blocking, I had good luck with a product called "WingIts". As in, after I installed the grab bar, I could lift my fat ass up with it.
- baremetal 5y agothere is no substitute for hitting a stud. drywall anchors for holding up cabinets is blasphemy! try french cleats screwed into studs instead.
- aidenn0 5y agoToggle-bolts can hold quite a bit. Certainly compared to some of those self-drilling anchors they are conservatively rated.
- ryanmarsh 5y agoSo glad they mentioned the Cobra Driller Toggle. These have saved me much frustration. I wish I’d discovered them sooner.
- dangerboysteve 5y agoI've used the Toggler Snaptoggle many times to mount large televisions 75-80 inches and they were fantastic.
- reportingsjr 5y agoI used them last year to mount a climbing hangboard to a plaster and lath wall. I used about 6 of them and I'm roughly 180lbs, it feels absolutely solid. I'll definitely be using them in the future for high weight situations.
- par 5y agomounted a tv in my bedroom into metal studs using snaptoggle, i love them.
- hedgehog 5y agoAfter a lot of research I settled on SnapToggles for floor-to-ceiling shelving mounted to lath and plaster. About as easy to install as could reasonably be expected for the wall type and seems to be holding well.
- jimbobimbo 5y agoJust in time! Doing remodeling and attaching things to walls is a big deal.
- samizdis 5y agoLove the thoroughness of that piece, and the site in general takes me back to watching episodes on TV of The New Yankee Workshop [1] with Norm Abram [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Yankee_Workshop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Yankee_Workshop [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Abram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Abram
- bcrosby95 5y ago> When I need to secure larger cabinets or other wooden pieces to a drywall or plaster wall and there is no stud accessible, toggle bolts are the anchors I most often turn to. Or if you have young children. My 3 year olds can literally swing on our towel racks and they won't come out the wall. I've since converted everything in our house to these because things kept getting pulled out by them.
- stooliepidgin 5y ago"Anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity." this isn't. There is nothing scientific or substantive about this article and it's more-or-less basic information found in any old Black & Decker home improvement book. Plus, only an idiot uses expanding anchors that cannot be removed without getting into drywall repairs. Blue putty for an unframed poster, brads (tiny nails) for light items, screw-in removable drywall anchors, or anchoring into studs using lag bolts are basically all you need. Meta: I have lost a lot of confidence that are enough hackers left on HN to outweigh the nonhackers who "Facebook viralify" junk articles and low-signal arguments.
- par 5y agoSomething I am not sure was mentioned here was dynamic loads. You could secure a bicycle mount to your wall using one of the aforementioned anchors, however the repetitiveness of bring the bike on and off the mount will cause the drywall to fail, and it will come crashing down at some point. Anchors are good for static loads. For dynamic loads, you will still need to find a stud. This is made even more complicated these days with the introduction of metal studs in so many buildings. At that point, a molly or toggle bolt into a metal stud is going to be your best bet.
- 99_00 5y agoStupid question: Assume I have anchors rated at 20lbs. I put up a shelf using 4 anchors. The shelf weighs 10lbs. Should I assume that the shelf can hold 70lbs of evenly distributed weight?
- typhonic 5y agoThis is my favorite. It's hard to find, so I made a quick sketch. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hSCB8ZGGH7tlph-NuNRWa317HCV4DJe7/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hSCB8ZGGH7tlph-NuNRWa317HCV... I turn it so the flat side is horizontal. It expands when you put the screw in and it holds quite a bit. You just push it in by hand. When your done, it will pull out and leave just a small(ish) slot. Like I said, they are hard to find, so I take them when I move and re-use them.
- trdtaylor1 5y agoNo mention of Gorilla Hooks, my favorite method of attaching anything to the wall up to 50 lbs. Basically you drive a curved piece of metal through the wall, as you drive it in it curves up to impact the drywall above your insertion point, and it has a hook on the end. It works so much easier then any of the stupid anchors, and I haven't had one fail over 15 years of using them for everything.