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If this technology was made safe, effective, in patient control, and relatively non-intrusive, would you consider it? I’m imagining an app on your phone where

If this technology was made safe, effective, in patient control, and relatively non-intrusive, would you consider it? I’m imagining an app on your phone where on a day you’re feeling down, you turn it on for a bit.

bciwayaway 5y ago
Nope. When I was a student maybe 5-10 years ago, I got to attend a conference on brain/computer interface research as part of an extracurricular. There were lots of interesting posters and products, but what really grabbed me was one of the headlining presentations. A group of researchers had learned how to use deep brain stimulation to do exactly this: provide immediate relief to a severely depressed patient. The video was dramatic, but I found it creepy. One second, the person looked sunk in misery as they talked about their bleak outlook on the world. The next second, they started smiling and saying that everything seemed alright. The on/off procedure repeated a few times with the same effect: misery, relief, misery, relief. I would take a brain implant to help me type faster, or treat a degenerative brain disease. But something that acted like a rapid mood-altering drug? Never, not after seeing that video.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> I’m imagining an app on your phone where on a day you’re feeling down, you turn it on for a bit. That’s not really what this brain implant does. The patient was experiencing certain obsessive thought loops leading to depression. The brain implant was targeting at disrupting the thought loops allowing for recovery. A brain implant that directly induced positive mood would be something else entirely. I suspect it could quickly lead to addictive behaviors as patients give up on naturally improving their condition and learn to rely on pressing the button for more happy thoughts instead.
- caycep 5y ago
  well...you can turn that Neuropace device they are using on and off w/ its smartphone controller...
arp242 5y ago
To quote G'Kar: "we are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away." The problem with using such a device at will when merely feeling down (that is, things that are not clinical depression) is that life will become boring, monotonous, and in a way, almost futile. What's the point of anything any more if we can just "be happy" at the press of a button? Why bother actually solving whatever made you unhappy in the first place? How can you still appreciate the good moments? How can you still build deep social relationships if your ability to make someone else happy? (Or why even seek out such relationships in the first place?) Occasional use won't be a huge problem, but such a device would quickly become addictive at least psychologically, if not psychically. It's impossible to say what will happen, but I don't think it will be very positive. So my answer would be "no". Aside: the idea is not entirely new; e.g. in Brave New World there is a "happy drug" with more or less the same effects that you describe.
- pjerem 5y ago
  > What's the point of anything any more if we can just "be happy" at the press of a button? Why bother actually solving whatever made you unhappy in the first place? How can you still appreciate the good moments? How can you still build deep social relationships if your ability to make someone else happy? (Or why even seek out such relationships in the first place?) You described drugs ! And I can feel an incoming issue for the society. If anyone can be happy with the press of a button, why bother about, say… improving society, fighting human exploitation (they’re so happy to work), fighting climate change (at least we get 6 months summers, what a relief). But I’m not rejecting that this appliance could be very useful if well used, because depression also is an issue for the society, for the ones affected, and because it probably increases criminality by a lot. Well, it looks like humanity is going through a lot of hard topics to tackle.
  - arp242 5y ago
    Drugs sure as hell never made me happy; they just made me feel weird and uncomfortable. Maybe I tried the wrong drugs shrug > But I’m not rejecting that this appliance could be very useful if well used, because depression also is an issue for the society, for the ones affected Oh yes, sure, I think we can get a lot of value out of this. But I think there's a very big difference between "depression" and "feeling down".
knaik94 5y ago
“At that moment, when I had the TV sound off, I was in a 382 mood; I had just dialed it. So although I heard the emptiness intellectually, I didn't feel it. My first reaction consisted of being grateful that we could afford a Penfield mood organ. But then I realized how unhealthy it was, sensing the absence of life, not just in this building but everywhere, and not reacting—do you see? I guess you don't. But that used to be considered a sign of mental illness; they called it 'absence of appropriate affect.' So I left the TV sound off and I sat down at my mood organ and I experimented. And I finally found a setting for despair. So I put it on my schedule for twice a month; I think that's a reasonable amount of time to feel hopeless about everything, about staying here on Earth after everybody who's smart has emigrated, don't you think?” ― Philip K. Dick, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? I would absolutely use it. The current state of mental health care feels like the wild west at times. I want to imagine a technology like this would have less side effects than what we currently use. I don't know where we would have to draw a line for when to use it. When you miss the bus and were late to an important meeting. When you lost a pair of your favorite headphones. When you lost something you feel very sentimental about. When you lose a pet or a loved one. When you see something traumatic. When you experience something traumatic. What would feeling down mean in a world where happiness is a click of a button away?

bciwayaway 5y ago

Nope. When I was a student maybe 5-10 years ago, I got to attend a conference on brain/computer interface research as part of an extracurricular. There were lots of interesting posters and products, but what really grabbed me was one of the headlining presentations. A group of researchers had learned how to use deep brain stimulation to do exactly this: provide immediate relief to a severely depressed patient. The video was dramatic, but I found it creepy. One second, the person looked sunk in misery as they talked about their bleak outlook on the world. The next second, they started smiling and saying that everything seemed alright. The on/off procedure repeated a few times with the same effect: misery, relief, misery, relief. I would take a brain implant to help me type faster, or treat a degenerative brain disease. But something that acted like a rapid mood-altering drug? Never, not after seeing that video.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> I’m imagining an app on your phone where on a day you’re feeling down, you turn it on for a bit. That’s not really what this brain implant does. The patient was experiencing certain obsessive thought loops leading to depression. The brain implant was targeting at disrupting the thought loops allowing for recovery. A brain implant that directly induced positive mood would be something else entirely. I suspect it could quickly lead to addictive behaviors as patients give up on naturally improving their condition and learn to rely on pressing the button for more happy thoughts instead.

caycep 5y ago
well...you can turn that Neuropace device they are using on and off w/ its smartphone controller...

arp242 5y ago

To quote G'Kar: "we are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away." The problem with using such a device at will when merely feeling down (that is, things that are not clinical depression) is that life will become boring, monotonous, and in a way, almost futile. What's the point of anything any more if we can just "be happy" at the press of a button? Why bother actually solving whatever made you unhappy in the first place? How can you still appreciate the good moments? How can you still build deep social relationships if your ability to make someone else happy? (Or why even seek out such relationships in the first place?) Occasional use won't be a huge problem, but such a device would quickly become addictive at least psychologically, if not psychically. It's impossible to say what will happen, but I don't think it will be very positive. So my answer would be "no". Aside: the idea is not entirely new; e.g. in Brave New World there is a "happy drug" with more or less the same effects that you describe.

pjerem 5y ago
> What's the point of anything any more if we can just "be happy" at the press of a button? Why bother actually solving whatever made you unhappy in the first place? How can you still appreciate the good moments? How can you still build deep social relationships if your ability to make someone else happy? (Or why even seek out such relationships in the first place?) You described drugs ! And I can feel an incoming issue for the society. If anyone can be happy with the press of a button, why bother about, say… improving society, fighting human exploitation (they’re so happy to work), fighting climate change (at least we get 6 months summers, what a relief). But I’m not rejecting that this appliance could be very useful if well used, because depression also is an issue for the society, for the ones affected, and because it probably increases criminality by a lot. Well, it looks like humanity is going through a lot of hard topics to tackle.
- arp242 5y ago
  Drugs sure as hell never made me happy; they just made me feel weird and uncomfortable. Maybe I tried the wrong drugs shrug > But I’m not rejecting that this appliance could be very useful if well used, because depression also is an issue for the society, for the ones affected Oh yes, sure, I think we can get a lot of value out of this. But I think there's a very big difference between "depression" and "feeling down".

knaik94 5y ago

“At that moment, when I had the TV sound off, I was in a 382 mood; I had just dialed it. So although I heard the emptiness intellectually, I didn't feel it. My first reaction consisted of being grateful that we could afford a Penfield mood organ. But then I realized how unhealthy it was, sensing the absence of life, not just in this building but everywhere, and not reacting—do you see? I guess you don't. But that used to be considered a sign of mental illness; they called it 'absence of appropriate affect.' So I left the TV sound off and I sat down at my mood organ and I experimented. And I finally found a setting for despair. So I put it on my schedule for twice a month; I think that's a reasonable amount of time to feel hopeless about everything, about staying here on Earth after everybody who's smart has emigrated, don't you think?” ― Philip K. Dick, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? I would absolutely use it. The current state of mental health care feels like the wild west at times. I want to imagine a technology like this would have less side effects than what we currently use. I don't know where we would have to draw a line for when to use it. When you miss the bus and were late to an important meeting. When you lost a pair of your favorite headphones. When you lost something you feel very sentimental about. When you lose a pet or a loved one. When you see something traumatic. When you experience something traumatic. What would feeling down mean in a world where happiness is a click of a button away?