4 ms·

It could do the opposite, borrowers may feel that the late fees justify them keeping the book for longer, since they are paying for their excess usage.

jaggederest 5y ago
Kahneman talks about a study done in Israel that adding a modest fee for people who are late picking up their children from daycare actually increases lateness - people view it as a fair transaction, whereas previously they would feel shame if they were late.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  That is actually really profound!
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Makes sense. If I’m paying to be late anyway I may as well not rush there.
- greeneggs 5y ago
  For me, it is the opposite. I don't feel any shame from a computer marking a book as "late" in its database. I do feel shame from having to walk up to the library desk and tell the librarian that I owe them $0.50 in late fees. I'll go well out of my way to return books on time, to avoid this shame and not the relatively trivial fee itself. I think that perhaps strong shame requires a social interaction. (However, I would also be ashamed to pick up my child late from daycare, so maybe my feelings aren't broadly representative.)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - nereye 5y ago
    Wouldn't most libraries nowadays allow paying fees online? KCLS (King County Library System in Washington) allows that for example. You can maybe try looking at it from another angle and feel proud of supporting your library by giving them money...
- prawn 5y ago
  I have heard about that before also. I think at our childcare, it's $15 per minute. Enough that if we get stuck in traffic, we call a relative and hope they can get there faster.
  - xxxtentachyon 5y ago
    $15 per minute seems extortionate. Is the pickup window huge or something?
    - prawn 5y ago
      You can drop off any time after 6:30am and pick-up any time before 6pm. Not really a window as such. I've always assumed the number is just a deterrent - I've been late by a couple of minutes in the past and never noticed a fine. Though that might've been at the discretion of staff (e.g., to penalise lazy, repeat offenders rather than isolated case of traffic due to an accident).
      - rob74 5y ago
        So it's not only extortionate, but also arbitrary? Which favors people who are able to talk themselves out of any situation? Great (not for me though)...
  - pjerem 5y ago
    Wow. Is there at least some capping ? I've never been late to childcare but there are so many reasons I could have been that your $15 are frightening me. I'm not even sure that late fees where I am are above 1 or 2€ per 15 minutes.
    - prawn 5y ago
      At a few bucks per hour, people could leave their kids until 9pm and go out for a quick dinner and movie. That'd be the cheapest babysitting in town. As said elsewhere, I don't think it's ever enforced, just as backup in case they have someone repeatedly taking advantage of them. I've often arrived in the last 3-5 minutes. If you are late, staff are forced to hang around, cleaners potentially can't complete their job, etc.
- gmac 5y ago
  Gneezy & Rustichini 2000, ' A fine is a price' https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/fine.pdf https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/fine... (I teach this one on my behavioural econ course).
  - jaggederest 5y ago
    Thank you for the citation!
- taurusnoises 5y ago
  Right. I think this is mentioned in the book, Doughnut Economics, in reference to monetizing interpersonal social interactions (tho I may have that reference slightly off. Sorry, in bed and book is sooo far away).
dymk 5y ago
Perhaps the penalty should be a limitation on future book borrowing, then. So that way it's clear it isn't a mutually beneficial (or just zero-sum) transaction, but rather a punishment for being late.
alisonkisk 5y ago
Not really, because late fees are absurdly expensive if you keep the item more than a few days.

jaggederest 5y ago

Kahneman talks about a study done in Israel that adding a modest fee for people who are late picking up their children from daycare actually increases lateness - people view it as a fair transaction, whereas previously they would feel shame if they were late.

jrochkind1 5y ago
That is actually really profound!
Aeolun 5y ago
Makes sense. If I’m paying to be late anyway I may as well not rush there.
greeneggs 5y ago
For me, it is the opposite. I don't feel any shame from a computer marking a book as "late" in its database. I do feel shame from having to walk up to the library desk and tell the librarian that I owe them $0.50 in late fees. I'll go well out of my way to return books on time, to avoid this shame and not the relatively trivial fee itself. I think that perhaps strong shame requires a social interaction. (However, I would also be ashamed to pick up my child late from daycare, so maybe my feelings aren't broadly representative.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nereye 5y ago
  Wouldn't most libraries nowadays allow paying fees online? KCLS (King County Library System in Washington) allows that for example. You can maybe try looking at it from another angle and feel proud of supporting your library by giving them money...
prawn 5y ago
I have heard about that before also. I think at our childcare, it's $15 per minute. Enough that if we get stuck in traffic, we call a relative and hope they can get there faster.
- xxxtentachyon 5y ago
  $15 per minute seems extortionate. Is the pickup window huge or something?
  - prawn 5y ago
    You can drop off any time after 6:30am and pick-up any time before 6pm. Not really a window as such. I've always assumed the number is just a deterrent - I've been late by a couple of minutes in the past and never noticed a fine. Though that might've been at the discretion of staff (e.g., to penalise lazy, repeat offenders rather than isolated case of traffic due to an accident).
    - rob74 5y ago
      So it's not only extortionate, but also arbitrary? Which favors people who are able to talk themselves out of any situation? Great (not for me though)...
- pjerem 5y ago
  Wow. Is there at least some capping ? I've never been late to childcare but there are so many reasons I could have been that your $15 are frightening me. I'm not even sure that late fees where I am are above 1 or 2€ per 15 minutes.
  - prawn 5y ago
    At a few bucks per hour, people could leave their kids until 9pm and go out for a quick dinner and movie. That'd be the cheapest babysitting in town. As said elsewhere, I don't think it's ever enforced, just as backup in case they have someone repeatedly taking advantage of them. I've often arrived in the last 3-5 minutes. If you are late, staff are forced to hang around, cleaners potentially can't complete their job, etc.
gmac 5y ago
Gneezy & Rustichini 2000, ' A fine is a price' https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/fine.pdf https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/fine... (I teach this one on my behavioural econ course).
- jaggederest 5y ago
  Thank you for the citation!
taurusnoises 5y ago
Right. I think this is mentioned in the book, Doughnut Economics, in reference to monetizing interpersonal social interactions (tho I may have that reference slightly off. Sorry, in bed and book is sooo far away).

dymk 5y ago

Perhaps the penalty should be a limitation on future book borrowing, then. So that way it's clear it isn't a mutually beneficial (or just zero-sum) transaction, but rather a punishment for being late.

alisonkisk 5y ago

Not really, because late fees are absurdly expensive if you keep the item more than a few days.