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Ask HN: Help, I think Amazon is stealing my ebook
I was recently pointed to a copy of my free ebook being sold on Amazon for the Kindle. I sent a DMCA takedown notice 5 business days ago and haven't heard anything back.
When I first saw it, I noticed that it was being sold by "Amazon Digital Services"..which I thought was really fishy - like someone trying to pass themselves off as Amazon. Now that I've done more research though, it seems like this actually is Amazon.
If you open the book on the website and you look at the very top, you'll see the original CC Non-Commercial license.
What should I do?
- jvanderwal 15y agoLooks like this is a common problem and Amazon's starting to take it seriously: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/amazon-cracks-down-on-some-e-book-publishers/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/amazon-cracks-down-...
- mike-cardwell 15y agoI assume you've contacted Amazon? Have they responded? A little more info would be useful...
- latch 15y agoyes, on august 6th i sent a DMCA takedown notice, based on one of many templates I found online. I wasn't sure how long it should take, but it seems like 1-3 days is what people consider reasonable. I also found a number of article suggesting that Amazon has ignored DMCA notices in the past, which is what caused me to escalate it.
- Cushman 15y agoFor what it's worth, it's not Amazon, but a highly scammy-seeming Amazon merchant: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/seller/at-a-glance.html?ie=UTF8&seller=AG56TWVU5XWC2 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/seller/at-a-glance.html?ie=UTF... ("Amazon Digital Services, Inc. US") It's hard to believe Amazon lets merchants have "Amazon" in their name, but there it is. If you don't get a reply from someone at AZ in a timely manner, I imagine you could go ahead and file a DMCA takedown as the copyright owner. They're making your copyrighted material available for download without your permission— This is exactly what it's for.
- nirvana 15y agoAmazon Digital Services Inc, is, in fact a subsidiary Amazon.com. Here's a lawsuit filing, which cites this corporate entity as being domiciled in delaware: http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/4:2011cv01327/238522/38/ http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/califor... More than once in the past, I've seen Amazon sell things on its own store using its own merchant "seller" accounts. This is a convenience for smaller divisions within amazon that want to sell using Amazon.com without setting up custom code on the Amazon.com store system (presumably.) For instance, here's the page for the Kindle: http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Special-Offers-Wireless-Reader/dp/B004HFS6Z0/ref=amb_link_357152122_2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=177MR8VN2HP9Q2CZ06MH&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1314296822&pf_rd_i=507846 http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Special-Offers-Wireless-Reader/... Which contains the text: "In Stock. Ships from and sold by Amazon Digital Services. Gift-wrap available." Here's a kindle game they developed, with Amazon Digital Services as the creator: http://www.amazon.com/Every-Word/dp/B003P37FW0/ref=kin3w_ddp_ac_1?pf_rd_p=1295151982&pf_rd_s=center-52&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004HFS6Z0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1271XAX22C1TTQDNAVPA http://www.amazon.com/Every-Word/dp/B003P37FW0/ref=kin3w_ddp... Delaware lets you search corporations online: https://delecorp.delaware.gov/tin/GINameSearch.jsp https://delecorp.delaware.gov/tin/GINameSearch.jsp This let me confirm they exist (file 3892327) but doesn't show ownership or other info about them.
- nikcub 15y agoIt is usually recommended to send a friendly email first, but I would skip that step with Amazon since they have an entire department and process built around receiving and acting on copyright claims under the DMCA. You need to email copyright@amazon.com The template to use is something like this: http://labnol.blogspot.com/2007/09/dmca-notice-of-copyright-infringement.html http://labnol.blogspot.com/2007/09/dmca-notice-of-copyright-... You need to sign it, either physically or by dropping an image into the claim document (do it as a Word document or Google doc). Remember that it is a legal document, so you must be sure ('in good faith') that the claim is accurate, which may require that you either purchase a copy of the infringing book or downloading the sample to confirm that it is your content. You can get more information at the bottom of this page: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=footer_cou?ie=UTF8&nodeId=508088 http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=foot... (note: while I have sent out DMCA requests previously, I have never had to send one to Amazon, but the process is similar to dealing with other service providers)
- michael_dorfman 15y agoI see that you've released the book using the Creative Commons "Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported" license, so it looks like Amazon is clearly in error here. Have you contacted them according to the instructions here? http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/102-5493690-1847300?ie=UTF8&nodeId=508088#copyright http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/102-5493... There's a telephone number there-- I imagine you should be able to get this cleared up quickly.
- rmc 15y agoIt's the NonCommercial part that they are breaking. You can sell Creative Commons stuff on Amazon's KDP if it allows commerical reuse (obviously you'll have to turn off the DRM option)
- stdbrouw 15y agoUm, that's exactly what Michael said.
- pbhjpbhj 15y agoI notice that on the Code Better page, http://codebetter.com/karlseguin/2008/06/25/foundations-of-programming-ebook/ http://codebetter.com/karlseguin/2008/06/25/foundations-of-p... , he says "I’m excited to finally release the official, and completely free, Foundations of Programming EBook.". This could be interpreted, as there is no contradictory license statement on that page, as "this book is free-libre". If "Amazon Digital Services" (which, if not originating with Amazon, has to be a Trademark violation that could lose Amazon their Trademark right if not challenged) counter the DMCA notice with such a statement I think that would leave the matter unresolved and Amazon wouldn't, IIRC, be obliged to take down the material. You'd have to lawyer up instead. IA(quite obviously I'm sure)NAL.
- petercooper 15y agoBut who would seriously interpret it that way, other than as a pedantic legal defense? ;-) When the newspaper says "Toy Story DVD Free Today!" it'd be odd to interpret that as assuming you could sell your own copies of Toy Story. I don't think authors necessarily have to stoop to defining everything in legally precise terms if the general term fits the case and, particularly, since copyright law is on their side already even if they say nothing.
- svec 15y agoNotice and Procedure for Making Claims of Copyright Infringement If you believe that your work has been copied in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, please provide Amazon.com's copyright agent the written information specified below. Please note that this procedure is exclusively for notifying Amazon that your copyrighted material has been infringed. An electronic or physical signature of the person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright interest; A description of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed upon; A description of where the material that you claim is infringing is located on the site, including the auction ID number, if applicable; Your address, telephone number, and e-mail address; A statement by you that you have a good-faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law; A statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the copyright owner or authorized to act on the copyright owner's behalf. Amazon.com's Copyright Agent for notice of claims of copyright infringement on its site can be reached as follows: Copyright Agent Amazon.com Legal Department P.O. Box 81226 Seattle, WA 98108 phone: (206) 266-4064 fax: (206) 266-7010 e-mail: copyright@amazon.com Courier address: Copyright Agent Amazon.com Legal Department 410 Terry Avenue North Seattle, WA 98109-5210 USA
- latch 15y agoThanks, I'll try snail mail. However, I did send a DMCA takedown notice to copyright@amazon.com (the address they have registered for such complaints).
- MrKurtHaeusler 15y agoI read this e-book when it first came out. It is excellent. Probably the best thing I read that year.
- hluska 15y agoI agree wholeheartedly - OP, I am sorry this is happening to you, but I am so glad that you wrote this book. It takes a lot to make me want to stand up and cheer after reading a book! :)
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- ColinWright 15y agoPerhaps take this under advisement ... You might want to consider creating a blog post outlining carefully the situation, the steps you've taken, and the responses you've had. Be careful to state only what you have concrete evidence for, and/or mark very clearly bits that are supposition or deductions. Mark things clearly with the date and time - make your records of the progress (or otherwise) public. After a few days, start to publicize the page. Be visible. When the whole episode is over you will have a documented story of your interaction with Amazon - this could be priceless to those that follow.
- mikecane 15y agoYes, please do that. It would be read by everyone else who has encountered this problem and help them resolve it too. I can spread it around eBook and writing sites.
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- latch 15y agoI wrote down my story so far: http://openmymind.net/2011/8/12/Amazon-Is-Selling-My-Free-Ebook http://openmymind.net/2011/8/12/Amazon-Is-Selling-My-Free-Eb... Not sure what the purpose of waiting a couple days are to be public about it. Thanks for the suggestion.
- ColinWright 15y ago"Not sure what the purpose of waiting a couple days are to be public about it." If someone had a dispute with me, I'd appreciate a couple of days to clear things up before they chose to escalate it by going public. This is something you need to decide on - do you want the whole thing to be public, which might make someone on the other side be more cautious about what they say, and possibly just "lawyer up" instead of negotiating in good faith. But I'm not in the USA.
- latch 15y agoI should have pointed out that on the 6th of august I sent a DMCA takedown notice to copyright@amazon.com (the address they have registered for such complaints) and haven't heard anything since.
- chopsueyar 15y agoYou may want to send a letter via certified mail, return receipt requested, to the address provided http://www.copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html http://www.copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html
- taude 15y agoGreat book, read it awhile ago. As you've probably figured out, there's been a lot of articles written about content publisher spam and content harvesting... Seems like Amazon needs to get their systems together to deal with this stuff quicker, much like YouTube.com.
- sgt 15y agoGreat, ordered it!
- giddas 15y agoHmm is this also happening with Learn Python The Hard Way? http://learnpythonthehardway.org/ http://learnpythonthehardway.org/ Available for Kindle on Amazon but no mention on the official site?
- latch 15y agozed confirmed that the book is official: http://twitter.com/#!/zedshaw/status/102019632772288512 http://twitter.com/#!/zedshaw/status/102019632772288512
- mathattack 15y agoPerhaps you could sell a 99 cents version on Amazon?
- latch 15y agoI appreciate the thought, but I'm pretty strongly opposed to charging for tech books (http://openmymind.net/2011/3/31/Why-I%27d-Never-Charge-For-A-Tech-Book http://openmymind.net/2011/3/31/Why-I%27d-Never-Charge-For-A...) and having to charge just so someone else can't isn't right.
- sliverstorm 15y agoThink of it this way; at $0.99, the buyer is paying for Amazon's distribution services and nice formatting, and getting the content for free! No, seriously, I have a Kindle, and I would much rather pay $0.99 for a nicely formatted book managed by their backend than hunt down a poorly formatted free version. Plus it is easy for you to update the book. $0.99 is hardly profiteering, and I feel like in standing on principal you eliminate a possibility everybody would be happy with.
- phuff 15y agoYeah, though I think $.99 is kind of steep for this feature, it is probably worth some money to me to get the cross device sync feature that having it be on the kindle platform provides. I can read from my phone, my kindle, my browser and it saves my place. I think that's honestly worth more like... $.25 or $.10 to me instead of $.99 but it's definitely worth something. Of course, if they provided it for free, I'd be happy, too :)
- radicalbyte 15y agoWhy not make it available for $0.99 and then donate the proceeds to charity?
- mathattack 15y agoThe 99 cents is arbitrary. Basically any number low enough to keep you from getting scammed. I was "yes, helpful" vote number 154 this morning. Hard to imagine too many others buying it. The charity idea is a good one too. Or you could create a beer fund for your fan base. :-) Or follow Knuth's example for people who find errors. I suspect this will all be resolved to your satisfaction shortly. Please keep us informed.
- damoncali 15y agoGreat promotion opportunity. Run with it.
- latch 15y agoIt's a pretty old book that I'm not sure people should still be reading, let alone pay for. But, if you want promotion, you could always read The Little MongoDB Book (http://openmymind.net/2011/3/28/The-Little-MongoDB-Book http://openmymind.net/2011/3/28/The-Little-MongoDB-Book) it's also free though....(and I'm constantly keeping an eye on Amazon for it now).
- damoncali 15y agoI will. See - it works!
- dmlorenzetti 15y agoThis happened with a report my research group put out. The work was paid for by the U.S. government, and posted free on our web site. Some publisher downloaded it, slapped on an ugly cover, and started selling it on Amazon. We talked about whether to do anything about it, but in the end decided not to. At this point, the details are a little hazy, but it was some combination of "meh", "we did the research on the public behalf, so as long as the information is available, we're happy", and "our legal advisor says it would cost more to pursue than this rinky-dink report can justify". PDF of the work in question: http://securebuildings.lbl.gov/images/BldgAdvice.pdf http://securebuildings.lbl.gov/images/BldgAdvice.pdf
- puredemo 15y agoI would just leave a review with the link to the free copy.
- wiredfool 15y agoYou're not the only one, it's been noticed before by a bunch of SFF writers here: http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012933.html http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/012933.html Includes suggestions to file DCMA takedowns, and generally how much amazon doesn't care. I wonder, in idle speculation, if a three strikes law would remove their internet connection for three instances of trying to sell a copyrighted work where they don't have a license to distribute it.
- nitrogen 15y agoI wonder, in idle speculation, if a three strikes law would remove their internet connection for three instances of trying to sell a copyrighted work where they don't have a license to distribute it. Surely you know better than to think that corporations are held to the same standards as individuals ;).
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- ltamake 15y agoSend Amazon a DMCA takedown notice and alert the seller as well.
- shinji97 15y agoi dont think they will sell anyway... out of the 16 feedbacks they have received... 63% are negative...
- Nutella2 15y agoI just looked at the Amazon sale page and saw it had one review from the author saying that he is the copyright holder, then refreshed the page and the review was gone. So it seems that Amazon is aware of the problem and is deliberately continuing to distribute his book while concealing any information about the copyright challenge.
- mathattack 15y agoThe link is now dead. I think that means you succeeded!