21 ms·

Fundamentally, cryptocurrency is an end-run around the ridiculous and absurd SWIFT sanctions, KYC, and AML regulations that weigh down banks around the world. T

by caeril 5y ago

Fundamentally, cryptocurrency is an end-run around the ridiculous and absurd SWIFT sanctions, KYC, and AML regulations that weigh down banks around the world. There's nothing innovative about it beyond this. We've known how to do two-phase transactions for decades, now. We've had Merkle Trees for about the same period of time. The only innovation cryptocurrency offers is that it's decentralized, to avoid the garbage regulations surrounding moving money. If anybody actually cared about the environmental impact of cryptocurrencies, they'd do the obvious thing: advocate for the free, unencumbered movement of money from person X to person Y within the existing system. A repeal of KYC and AML would immediately kill all cryptocurrencies, particularly privacy coins.

thebean11 5y ago
None of the things you listed work as replacements for the EVM. A decentralized SWIFT still can't execute software that can move money around.
fleddr 5y ago
That's ridiculous. Most retail and institutional investors in crypto are already KYC. The current value in crypto isn't solely in moving money, there's scarcity (Bitcoin), utility (ether), Defi/staking, NFTs, the metaverse, whatever. Moving money is a benefit, but the least interesting use case of crypto.
- caeril 5y ago
  > Most retail and institutional investors in crypto are already KYC Indeed, because they're there for speculation, not value or utility. > there's scarcity (Bitcoin), utility (ether), Defi/staking, NFTs, the metaverse, whatever. Ok, I'll grant scarcity, but it's also part of the previously-mentioned end-run around the worst parts of the current fiat system. Ether offers no utility beyond token scams. NFTs the same, except double. > Moving money is a benefit, but the least interesting use case of crypto. Moving money without the IRS/DOJ/FBI/CIA/NSA/Mossad/PLA peeking over your shoulder is literally the killer app for cryptocurrencies. BTC is obviously failing at this particular task for anyone on a KYC exchange, but cash and tumbler markets are still thriving, and there's always Monero and ZCash, as well.
  - fleddr 5y ago
    Speculation is value and a utility in itself. There is nothing inherently wrong with speculating on an asset. In fact, if we're truly honest here, most holders/traders of crypto are mostly there to grow their wealth. This is currently the real killer app of crypto: spectacularly growing your wealth in record time, or the opposite: losing it all. I would generally agree that most things built on top of Ether are useless, hype-driven or simply scams. But details matters. When the dust clears, I believe there to be a future for some current experiments in a more mature form, but I won't digress too much. For sure I believe you can still go underground in crypto and dodge everything, but I don't believe it to be the killer app or highly common.
imtringued 5y ago
I personally only see value in the payments aspect. People telling me how I can 10x my money with a payments service are sketchy. The debt/credit system makes a whole lot of sense and I don't really see any innovation there in the cryptospace. Someone borrows $500k to start a business. The money flows into the hands of people who worked to make the business possible and they then get to redeem their dollars at the business in return. The debt gives the business a pretty good reason to accept USD voluntarily and the money supply is growing with the size of the economy. The idea that the entrepreneur just buys $500k of Bitcoin and ends up owning $5 million without doing anything doesn't really appeal to me.

by caeril 5y ago

thebean11 5y ago

None of the things you listed work as replacements for the EVM. A decentralized SWIFT still can't execute software that can move money around.

fleddr 5y ago

That's ridiculous. Most retail and institutional investors in crypto are already KYC. The current value in crypto isn't solely in moving money, there's scarcity (Bitcoin), utility (ether), Defi/staking, NFTs, the metaverse, whatever. Moving money is a benefit, but the least interesting use case of crypto.

caeril 5y ago
> Most retail and institutional investors in crypto are already KYC Indeed, because they're there for speculation, not value or utility. > there's scarcity (Bitcoin), utility (ether), Defi/staking, NFTs, the metaverse, whatever. Ok, I'll grant scarcity, but it's also part of the previously-mentioned end-run around the worst parts of the current fiat system. Ether offers no utility beyond token scams. NFTs the same, except double. > Moving money is a benefit, but the least interesting use case of crypto. Moving money without the IRS/DOJ/FBI/CIA/NSA/Mossad/PLA peeking over your shoulder is literally the killer app for cryptocurrencies. BTC is obviously failing at this particular task for anyone on a KYC exchange, but cash and tumbler markets are still thriving, and there's always Monero and ZCash, as well.
- fleddr 5y ago
  Speculation is value and a utility in itself. There is nothing inherently wrong with speculating on an asset. In fact, if we're truly honest here, most holders/traders of crypto are mostly there to grow their wealth. This is currently the real killer app of crypto: spectacularly growing your wealth in record time, or the opposite: losing it all. I would generally agree that most things built on top of Ether are useless, hype-driven or simply scams. But details matters. When the dust clears, I believe there to be a future for some current experiments in a more mature form, but I won't digress too much. For sure I believe you can still go underground in crypto and dodge everything, but I don't believe it to be the killer app or highly common.

imtringued 5y ago

I personally only see value in the payments aspect. People telling me how I can 10x my money with a payments service are sketchy. The debt/credit system makes a whole lot of sense and I don't really see any innovation there in the cryptospace. Someone borrows $500k to start a business. The money flows into the hands of people who worked to make the business possible and they then get to redeem their dollars at the business in return. The debt gives the business a pretty good reason to accept USD voluntarily and the money supply is growing with the size of the economy. The idea that the entrepreneur just buys $500k of Bitcoin and ends up owning $5 million without doing anything doesn't really appeal to me.