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Why, in conversations about chat apps, does telegram get brought up so frequently as a private alternative? Is it not also mostly proprietary the same as whatsa

Why, in conversations about chat apps, does telegram get brought up so frequently as a private alternative? Is it not also mostly proprietary the same as whatsapp/messenger whatever? Is it just a matter of a dislike for facebook?

SXX 5y ago
PR. And not being owned by FB. Telegram actually do have ecosystem of open source clients, but on other side E2EE is opt-in that no one uses.
opan 5y ago
Very good point. There's a free-ish client on F-Droid (probably even official), but it's still a proprietary and centralized service. I would not really consider it better than the other proprietary options, but for whatever reason some tech people are into telegram.
- vanilla_nut 5y ago
  Back in high school when I started using telegram (2010ish?), I started using it because it wasn’t Whatsapp, it wasn’t owned by Facebook, and it had a really great UI. And I didn’t really understand the encryption implications. Today I really wish it had full encryption. It says something about the developers that they’ve avoided default E2E for a full decade or more now. I’m trying to use signal more. But I also have years and years of telegram group chats to migrate…
  - ikt 5y ago
    > It says something about the developers that they’ve avoided default E2E for a full decade or more now. It's by design: https://telegra.ph/Why-Isnt-Telegram-End-to-End-Encrypted-by-Default-08-14 https://telegra.ph/Why-Isnt-Telegram-End-to-End-Encrypted-by...
whimsicalism 5y ago
The clients are open source, which provides better assurances around the E2E encryption than whatsapp.
- SXX 5y ago
  Except who the hell even use E2EE on Telegram?
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Fair enough, not me. But it's there and verified if you want it.
    - SXX 5y ago
      Yeah it's here, but it doesn't sync between devices, there is no group chat support, etc. While marketing trying to sell Telegram as good privacy by default.
  - stiltzkin 5y ago
    Some people use secrets chats if you want to hide something, they have the auto destruction of messages and chat way before it was implemented on WhatsApp.
  - prirai 5y ago
    You can keep it for personal chats. Also it has no contents revewled in notifications so apps with notification access cancan't steal it.
- notRobot 5y ago
  Note that telegram chats are not e2e encrypted by default.
  - AdamHominem 5y ago
    And that it uses a proprietary encryption protocol, "MTProto", which has been repeatedly found to have vulnerabilities, like every other self-made encryption scheme. Now add in the fact that it's a UAE company...
allarm 5y ago
It probably is, but it is also more convenient than whatsapp (or any other messenger for that matter) in many ways.
lucb1e 5y ago
It's about a few things: - If you have at least one alternative to Facebook installed, you lessen their network effect. People now have a choice how to talk to you. (I have another five messaging systems installed myself, but I will settle for everyone picking just their one favorite alternative to avoid a complete monopoly.) - If you install a Facebook messenger, you know what they're going to do with your metadata. If you install Telegram, you have to be afraid that your data contents might somehow leak in the future. What's better: a definite moderate privacy invasion or a potential worse one? I have trouble answering that for myself, let alone advise others (when it's only between these two and only about privacy). - Telegram has by far the best UX of any messenger I've ever used. Of course, this is helped by being unencumbered by any and all encryption problems by not having proper encryption, but it sure draws users.
- znpy 5y ago
  > - If you install a Facebook messenger, you know what they're going to do with your metadata. No that's false. Didn't you learn anything from the Cambridge Analytica scandal?
  - lucb1e 5y ago
    Apparently not, what should I have learned that you think I didn't? Because I'm not understanding what you're referring to (of course I know of the CA thing and that it used Facebook data, but that would mean we agree I think?).
  - Talanes 5y ago
    I'd rate the Cambridge Analytica scandal about the same as the Panama Papers: the only surprise was that we actually caught them in the act for once.
SergeAx 5y ago
Telegram server is proprietary, clients are open source. And the protocol is open, and it is quite robust despite being garden variety cryptography.
kaba0 5y ago
As others have mentioned the many open source clients, I would add that they are quite ahead in reproducible builds as well.

SXX 5y ago

PR. And not being owned by FB. Telegram actually do have ecosystem of open source clients, but on other side E2EE is opt-in that no one uses.

opan 5y ago

Very good point. There's a free-ish client on F-Droid (probably even official), but it's still a proprietary and centralized service. I would not really consider it better than the other proprietary options, but for whatever reason some tech people are into telegram.

vanilla_nut 5y ago
Back in high school when I started using telegram (2010ish?), I started using it because it wasn’t Whatsapp, it wasn’t owned by Facebook, and it had a really great UI. And I didn’t really understand the encryption implications. Today I really wish it had full encryption. It says something about the developers that they’ve avoided default E2E for a full decade or more now. I’m trying to use signal more. But I also have years and years of telegram group chats to migrate…
- ikt 5y ago
  > It says something about the developers that they’ve avoided default E2E for a full decade or more now. It's by design: https://telegra.ph/Why-Isnt-Telegram-End-to-End-Encrypted-by-Default-08-14 https://telegra.ph/Why-Isnt-Telegram-End-to-End-Encrypted-by...

whimsicalism 5y ago

The clients are open source, which provides better assurances around the E2E encryption than whatsapp.

SXX 5y ago
Except who the hell even use E2EE on Telegram?
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Fair enough, not me. But it's there and verified if you want it.
  - SXX 5y ago
    Yeah it's here, but it doesn't sync between devices, there is no group chat support, etc. While marketing trying to sell Telegram as good privacy by default.
- stiltzkin 5y ago
  Some people use secrets chats if you want to hide something, they have the auto destruction of messages and chat way before it was implemented on WhatsApp.
- prirai 5y ago
  You can keep it for personal chats. Also it has no contents revewled in notifications so apps with notification access cancan't steal it.
notRobot 5y ago
Note that telegram chats are not e2e encrypted by default.
- AdamHominem 5y ago
  And that it uses a proprietary encryption protocol, "MTProto", which has been repeatedly found to have vulnerabilities, like every other self-made encryption scheme. Now add in the fact that it's a UAE company...

allarm 5y ago

It probably is, but it is also more convenient than whatsapp (or any other messenger for that matter) in many ways.

lucb1e 5y ago

It's about a few things: - If you have at least one alternative to Facebook installed, you lessen their network effect. People now have a choice how to talk to you. (I have another five messaging systems installed myself, but I will settle for everyone picking just their one favorite alternative to avoid a complete monopoly.) - If you install a Facebook messenger, you know what they're going to do with your metadata. If you install Telegram, you have to be afraid that your data contents might somehow leak in the future. What's better: a definite moderate privacy invasion or a potential worse one? I have trouble answering that for myself, let alone advise others (when it's only between these two and only about privacy). - Telegram has by far the best UX of any messenger I've ever used. Of course, this is helped by being unencumbered by any and all encryption problems by not having proper encryption, but it sure draws users.

znpy 5y ago
> - If you install a Facebook messenger, you know what they're going to do with your metadata. No that's false. Didn't you learn anything from the Cambridge Analytica scandal?
- lucb1e 5y ago
  Apparently not, what should I have learned that you think I didn't? Because I'm not understanding what you're referring to (of course I know of the CA thing and that it used Facebook data, but that would mean we agree I think?).
- Talanes 5y ago
  I'd rate the Cambridge Analytica scandal about the same as the Panama Papers: the only surprise was that we actually caught them in the act for once.

SergeAx 5y ago

Telegram server is proprietary, clients are open source. And the protocol is open, and it is quite robust despite being garden variety cryptography.

kaba0 5y ago

As others have mentioned the many open source clients, I would add that they are quite ahead in reproducible builds as well.