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Life continued as normal in Sweden, Russia, Belarus... the pandemic 'response' was driven by the media and politicians. If there is surge of deaths in nursing h

Life continued as normal in Sweden, Russia, Belarus... the pandemic 'response' was driven by the media and politicians. If there is surge of deaths in nursing homes (typically 50% of COVID deaths), it has no impact on the rest of the economy. Many of those same politicians later benefitted to tune of millions of dollars from advance knowledge of federal bank intervention in markets. If there was no lockdown, this opportunity would not have occurred. There was a clear conflict of interest. https://www.yahoo.com/news/fed-vice-chair-traded-stocks-152738020.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/fed-vice-chair-traded-stocks-1527... Its the same for individuals who bought into MRNA startups eg. BioNTech in 2019 - there's a clear financial motivation to promote disruptive lockdown, in order to position vaccines as the cure. https://trialsitenews.com/gates-earns-10x-on-biontech-in-just-two-years-55m-investment-now-over-550m/ https://trialsitenews.com/gates-earns-10x-on-biontech-in-jus... Its likely that lockdowns worsen COVID, because of the reduction in health from lower Vitamin D (staying inside), poorer diets, increased stress, and reduction of exposure of younger people (school cancellations, nightclub closures etc.) who usually form the bulk of the herd immunity population for seasonal respiratory viruses.

norenh 5y ago
>Life continued as normal in Sweden... Sweden had less formal lockdowns, but recommendations that was largely followed . Also limited opening hours for restaurants and closed events with live audience. Most workers stayed at home, traveling went down A LOT and people could not visit care homes etc. If you compare the effect on society it was largely the same as the rest of Scandinavia that did have slightly more formal lockdowns. Lots of companies (restaurants, cultural events like concerts, theatre etc.) had real economical issues and a lot of people became unemployed. Could be worse, but still it is misleading to say life continued as normal. A quick google show that unemployment in Sweden doubled during the pandemic and that is largely attributed to the measures that took place as a response to the pandemic.
- pjc50 5y ago
  > live audience Exactly. Last year I watched (over the internet) Sanna Nielsen sing Stockholm in my heart to an empty field where there should have been an audience of thousands. Useful to have a bit of an awareness of foreign media to see what's actually happening, not what's reported by delusionists on the internet. It was never true that there were no restrictions in Sweden, just less restrictions.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    That’s the utility of high social trust; rules can be self enforced by suggestion, rather than by force.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  Sweden assumed their population is composed of adults. When you treat people like adults, they usually are far more likely to act as adults.
hcknwscommenter 5y ago
Your last paragraph demonstrates a number of profound and fundamental misunderstandings. First, herd immunity does not benefit from more bodies per se. You are portraying it as some sort of wall, where taking members out of the wall reduces the effectiveness. It is not like that at all. The proportion of previously exposed individuals required for herd immunity effects goes down as the frequency of potential spreading interactions goes down. Second, there is no correlation between lockdown and lower vitamin D. Third, we have clear data showing a profound reduction in the spread of other respiratory viruses (RSV, rhino, influenza). So, we have had many fewer deaths during lockdown that in previous years. A win, and yet you characterize it as a loss. Odd.
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  Clear data? How many people get tested for influenza? How many people which had influenza got tested for covid and got a positive result? If I went to my doctor last winter, told him I have strong fever and cough, he'll either send me to get a PCR test for covid, or no test, just tell me it's probably covid and I should stay home and monitor symptoms. In such case most flu cases would just be assumed covid, and that's where the reduction is coming from.
  - hcknwscommenter 5y ago
    More profound misunderstanding. Influenza tests exists and are deployed at scale. In the US, I assure you that anyone in the hospital with a high fever of unknown origin is tested for several influenza variants. No one just "assumes" covid. That is total and complete nonsense. We have clear data on influenza hospitalizations (edit: and deaths) and the numbers are way way down.
    - wyager 5y ago
      > No one just "assumes" covid. There were many months where PCR tests were not available to hospitals and the CARES act gave hospitals extra money for covid cases, so hospitals obviously set the policy of “anyone with some covid symptoms is to be considered a covid case”.
stadium 5y ago
> Its likely that lockdowns worsen COVID Please stop spreading conspiracy theories as fact. It is literally killing people.
- Gwarzo 5y ago
  In all fairness he presented this as "it's likely". Your own statement "conspiracy theories are killing people" is also a bit of a non fact. While the result of believing in conspiracy theories have no doubt lead to someones death, somewhere; presenting it as a serious problem whose root effect is "Death" is incredibly silly.
  - kaibee 5y ago
    The vast majority (95%+ afaik?) of deaths at this point is among the unvaccinated. Any reason to not get the vaccine is a 'conspiracy theory' unless you were literally directed not to by your doctor. You can literally measure the amount of people dying per day as a result of vaccine related conspiracy theories.
typon 5y ago
Why is blatant misinformation and conspiracy theory allowed on HN?
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  HN used to attract people who value personal freedom and freedom of speech. Seems like not anymore, like other online societies it fell victim to 'curb liberties for greater good' philosophy. Unfortunately for them, almost every single authoritarian or even totalitarian system uses the same excuse.
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    Really? Been here long? Because HN has been a shit show the entire time. Like the valley itself, HN has always been a political battleground between the ancaps and the demsocs.
  - evgen 5y ago
    > HN used to attract people who value personal freedom and freedom of speech It also used to attract far fewer idiots. Unfortunately, those days are long past. Now that HN actually has some (small) measureable influence in the industry we get brigading sock puppets, politically motivated nuts, and the dumpster-fire that is "weekend HN". Just consider the fact that a discussion that should be around the current nature of the supply chain and sourcing components is primarily composed of people arguing over lockdown.
  - CyanLite2 5y ago
    Informed people care about freedoms as much as you do. But all the conspiracy theory junk about ivermectin, lizard people, and microchipping in the vaccine is the modern day equivalent of yelling 'fire!' in a crowded theater.
anoonmoose 5y ago
I feel it would be irresponsible of me not to point out how extreme your claims in the last paragraph are and that you've provided nothing to back that up even. As even the weakest rebuttal, I'd lke point out that by all metrics I've seen standard influenza infections and deaths were also down due to lockdown/COVID prevention methods which I think is a helpful indicator. Edit: by the time I clicked submit, multiple people had also responded to this, which makes me feel better about HN today.
cedilla 5y ago
Life didn't continue in Sweden for about 14,000 people that died to COVID due to the lack of proper response, or hundreds of thousands with long COVID. Sweden had the best requisites to come out of the pandemic largely unscathed, like its neighbour Norway. Instead they decided to just let people get sick and die. edit: The nonsense about Vitamin D at the end is almost hilarious. We're talking about Sweden, right? The country on the Arctic Circle?
- nradov 5y ago
  Vitamin D supplementation is common in Sweden. There is only a weak correlation between latitude and vitamin D levels. Hypovitaminosis D is a serious risk factor for COVID-19. https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/ https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/
logicchains 5y ago
Indeed. Lockdowns were ineffective at reducing covid deaths; https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... found that "Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.". Moreover Stats Canada found that in 2020 lockdowns led to more excess deaths in under 65s than covid, largely due to increased substance abuse: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210712/dq210712b-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210712/dq210.... "Based on the newly updated provisional dataset released today from the Canadian Vital Statistics Death Database, from the end of March 2020 to the beginning of April 2021, an estimated 62,203 deaths were reported among Canadians aged 0 to 64. This represents 5,535 more deaths than expected were there no pandemic, after accounting for changes in the population such as aging. Over the same period, 1,380 COVID-19 deaths have been attributed to the same age group (those younger than 65), suggesting that the excess mortality is, in large part, related to other factors such as increases in the number deaths attributed to causes associated with substance use and misuse, including unintentional (accidental) poisonings and diseases and conditions related to alcohol consumption." Similarly, England saw 4635 non-covid excess deaths since July 2nd (compared to 4981 covid deaths): https://www.yahoo.com/news/analysis-thousands-more-usual-dying-170117640.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/analysis-thousands-more-usual-dyi....
tyrfing 5y ago
> If there was no lockdown, this opportunity would not have occurred. There was a clear conflict of interest. Your cited example is from before the WHO even declared a pandemic, and 1 day after the first case of community spread was reported in the US. > Life continued as normal in Sweden, Russia, Belarus... If there is surge of deaths in nursing homes (typically 50% of COVID deaths), it has no impact on the rest of the economy. Sweden GDP: -8.6% Q2 2020. Russia: -9.6 Q2 2020. Those are massive shifts to say "no impact". Lastly: lockdowns have mostly exempted industrial production like Intel and only required operational changes.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

norenh 5y ago

>Life continued as normal in Sweden... Sweden had less formal lockdowns, but recommendations that was largely followed . Also limited opening hours for restaurants and closed events with live audience. Most workers stayed at home, traveling went down A LOT and people could not visit care homes etc. If you compare the effect on society it was largely the same as the rest of Scandinavia that did have slightly more formal lockdowns. Lots of companies (restaurants, cultural events like concerts, theatre etc.) had real economical issues and a lot of people became unemployed. Could be worse, but still it is misleading to say life continued as normal. A quick google show that unemployment in Sweden doubled during the pandemic and that is largely attributed to the measures that took place as a response to the pandemic.

pjc50 5y ago
> live audience Exactly. Last year I watched (over the internet) Sanna Nielsen sing Stockholm in my heart to an empty field where there should have been an audience of thousands. Useful to have a bit of an awareness of foreign media to see what's actually happening, not what's reported by delusionists on the internet. It was never true that there were no restrictions in Sweden, just less restrictions.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  That’s the utility of high social trust; rules can be self enforced by suggestion, rather than by force.
elzbardico 5y ago
Sweden assumed their population is composed of adults. When you treat people like adults, they usually are far more likely to act as adults.

hcknwscommenter 5y ago

Your last paragraph demonstrates a number of profound and fundamental misunderstandings. First, herd immunity does not benefit from more bodies per se. You are portraying it as some sort of wall, where taking members out of the wall reduces the effectiveness. It is not like that at all. The proportion of previously exposed individuals required for herd immunity effects goes down as the frequency of potential spreading interactions goes down. Second, there is no correlation between lockdown and lower vitamin D. Third, we have clear data showing a profound reduction in the spread of other respiratory viruses (RSV, rhino, influenza). So, we have had many fewer deaths during lockdown that in previous years. A win, and yet you characterize it as a loss. Odd.

skocznymroczny 5y ago
Clear data? How many people get tested for influenza? How many people which had influenza got tested for covid and got a positive result? If I went to my doctor last winter, told him I have strong fever and cough, he'll either send me to get a PCR test for covid, or no test, just tell me it's probably covid and I should stay home and monitor symptoms. In such case most flu cases would just be assumed covid, and that's where the reduction is coming from.
- hcknwscommenter 5y ago
  More profound misunderstanding. Influenza tests exists and are deployed at scale. In the US, I assure you that anyone in the hospital with a high fever of unknown origin is tested for several influenza variants. No one just "assumes" covid. That is total and complete nonsense. We have clear data on influenza hospitalizations (edit: and deaths) and the numbers are way way down.
  - wyager 5y ago
    > No one just "assumes" covid. There were many months where PCR tests were not available to hospitals and the CARES act gave hospitals extra money for covid cases, so hospitals obviously set the policy of “anyone with some covid symptoms is to be considered a covid case”.

stadium 5y ago

> Its likely that lockdowns worsen COVID Please stop spreading conspiracy theories as fact. It is literally killing people.

Gwarzo 5y ago
In all fairness he presented this as "it's likely". Your own statement "conspiracy theories are killing people" is also a bit of a non fact. While the result of believing in conspiracy theories have no doubt lead to someones death, somewhere; presenting it as a serious problem whose root effect is "Death" is incredibly silly.
- kaibee 5y ago
  The vast majority (95%+ afaik?) of deaths at this point is among the unvaccinated. Any reason to not get the vaccine is a 'conspiracy theory' unless you were literally directed not to by your doctor. You can literally measure the amount of people dying per day as a result of vaccine related conspiracy theories.

typon 5y ago

Why is blatant misinformation and conspiracy theory allowed on HN?

skocznymroczny 5y ago
HN used to attract people who value personal freedom and freedom of speech. Seems like not anymore, like other online societies it fell victim to 'curb liberties for greater good' philosophy. Unfortunately for them, almost every single authoritarian or even totalitarian system uses the same excuse.
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  Really? Been here long? Because HN has been a shit show the entire time. Like the valley itself, HN has always been a political battleground between the ancaps and the demsocs.
- evgen 5y ago
  > HN used to attract people who value personal freedom and freedom of speech It also used to attract far fewer idiots. Unfortunately, those days are long past. Now that HN actually has some (small) measureable influence in the industry we get brigading sock puppets, politically motivated nuts, and the dumpster-fire that is "weekend HN". Just consider the fact that a discussion that should be around the current nature of the supply chain and sourcing components is primarily composed of people arguing over lockdown.
- CyanLite2 5y ago
  Informed people care about freedoms as much as you do. But all the conspiracy theory junk about ivermectin, lizard people, and microchipping in the vaccine is the modern day equivalent of yelling 'fire!' in a crowded theater.

anoonmoose 5y ago

I feel it would be irresponsible of me not to point out how extreme your claims in the last paragraph are and that you've provided nothing to back that up even. As even the weakest rebuttal, I'd lke point out that by all metrics I've seen standard influenza infections and deaths were also down due to lockdown/COVID prevention methods which I think is a helpful indicator. Edit: by the time I clicked submit, multiple people had also responded to this, which makes me feel better about HN today.

cedilla 5y ago

Life didn't continue in Sweden for about 14,000 people that died to COVID due to the lack of proper response, or hundreds of thousands with long COVID. Sweden had the best requisites to come out of the pandemic largely unscathed, like its neighbour Norway. Instead they decided to just let people get sick and die. edit: The nonsense about Vitamin D at the end is almost hilarious. We're talking about Sweden, right? The country on the Arctic Circle?

nradov 5y ago
Vitamin D supplementation is common in Sweden. There is only a weak correlation between latitude and vitamin D levels. Hypovitaminosis D is a serious risk factor for COVID-19. https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/ https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/

logicchains 5y ago

Indeed. Lockdowns were ineffective at reducing covid deaths; https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... found that "Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people.". Moreover Stats Canada found that in 2020 lockdowns led to more excess deaths in under 65s than covid, largely due to increased substance abuse: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210712/dq210712b-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210712/dq210.... "Based on the newly updated provisional dataset released today from the Canadian Vital Statistics Death Database, from the end of March 2020 to the beginning of April 2021, an estimated 62,203 deaths were reported among Canadians aged 0 to 64. This represents 5,535 more deaths than expected were there no pandemic, after accounting for changes in the population such as aging. Over the same period, 1,380 COVID-19 deaths have been attributed to the same age group (those younger than 65), suggesting that the excess mortality is, in large part, related to other factors such as increases in the number deaths attributed to causes associated with substance use and misuse, including unintentional (accidental) poisonings and diseases and conditions related to alcohol consumption." Similarly, England saw 4635 non-covid excess deaths since July 2nd (compared to 4981 covid deaths): https://www.yahoo.com/news/analysis-thousands-more-usual-dying-170117640.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/analysis-thousands-more-usual-dyi....

tyrfing 5y ago

> If there was no lockdown, this opportunity would not have occurred. There was a clear conflict of interest. Your cited example is from before the WHO even declared a pandemic, and 1 day after the first case of community spread was reported in the US. > Life continued as normal in Sweden, Russia, Belarus... If there is surge of deaths in nursing homes (typically 50% of COVID deaths), it has no impact on the rest of the economy. Sweden GDP: -8.6% Q2 2020. Russia: -9.6 Q2 2020. Those are massive shifts to say "no impact". Lastly: lockdowns have mostly exempted industrial production like Intel and only required operational changes.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]