8 ms·

Give me a way to pay for Firefox, please, and use the proceeds to hire a full development team that can hopefully catch up and overtake Chrome? Please?

by akie 5y ago

mijailt 5y ago
https://donate.mozilla.org https://donate.mozilla.org ?
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > Contributions go to the Mozilla Foundation, a 501(c)(3) organisation based in San Francisco, California, to be used in its discretion for its charitable purposes. This goes to the Mozilla Foundation and not to the browser's development. As far as I know there is currently no way to donate to the browser's development.
  - lifthrasiir 5y ago
    Buy products [1] from the Mozilla Corporation if it's your concern. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/products/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/products/
    - sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
      It is not something I would want to do from abroad.
    - gpm 5y ago
      That sounds like a way to fund development of their salable products, not firefox.
      - lifthrasiir 5y ago
        A browser has long been not a saleable product and buying side products is the closest thing you can do to fund its development. Not that it is satisfactory, but if you aren't doing that already then your complaints sound less credible IMO.
        Nextgrid 5y ago
        The Enterprise™ spends insane money on security products, lots of which are bordeline snake-oil. There's no reason a browser couldn't be part of that, especially considering it's at the front line when it comes to threats and could actually make a real difference. Electron is also popular and Mozilla could produce a Firefox-based alternative (whose selling points could be performance/memory usage/battery life) and provide commercial support. Is it going to sustain extravagant salaries & bonuses for the C-suite? Debatable. But it can absolutely be a suitable business paying reasonable salaries.
        kreeben 5y ago
        >> not a saleable product Isn't that a lot like saying "those sausages with toothpicks in them at the supermarket" are not saleable products?
- akie 5y ago
  Mozilla is not the same as Firefox, unfortunately. If I remember correctly Mozilla itself is relatively flush with money (through a deal they have with Google) and doesn't really need the money. Their chair is paid extremely well, in any case [1]. A lot of Mozilla's money seems to be spent on executive pay, overhead, and questionable side projects. Not so much (or not enough) on browser development, it seems. I'd MUCH prefer Firefox to be a product organization with its own budget and perhaps a yearly contribution from Mozilla. I have more faith in Firefox than in Mozilla. [1] https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html
  - sciurus 5y ago
    This is on the right track but a bit confused. There are two entities: 1) The nonprofit Mozilla foundation 2) The Mozilla corporation The foundation owns the corporation. The corporation develops Firefox and is primarily funded by the Google search deal. It also develops pocket and the VPN and gets some funding from their sales. The foundation is funded by grants and donations, both from individuals and from other organizations (including from the corporation).
BitwiseFool 5y ago
>"hire a full development team that can hopefully catch up and overtake Chrome?" In an ideal world the best browser would win but marketshare doesn't work that way. Microsoft has full time development teams working on Edge and it is just barely chipping away at chrome's dominance. And, in no small part because they pester Windows users to make Edge the default at every opportunity.
- kongin 5y ago
  Edge is a chrome skin. They don't have engineers working on a browser, they have engineers working on a _theme_.
  - Lendal 5y ago
    Really? So every time you bring in a dependency on a library written by someone else, your software is just a theme or wrapper? I guess that's one way to look at it.
    - no_time 5y ago
      if your python assignment is solved by import solution and some additional fluff (tracking,telemetry and other anti features in Edge's case) did you really do your homework?
      - hammyhavoc 5y ago
        Depends who you are turning your homework in to. :- )
    - kadoban 5y ago
      If you're making a browser and your dependency is a browser...yes.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - 5y ago
kongin 5y ago
> Give me a way to pay for Firefox, please, and use the proceeds to hire a full development team that can hopefully catch up and overtake Chrome? Please? Best we can do is spending the money on women who code outreach. Not sure what that has to do with web browsers, but I'm sure the CEO who managed to lose 80% market share knows better than me.
- slig 5y ago
  This chart is very telling [1] from [2]. [1]: https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg [2]: https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html
  - kongin 5y ago
    Yeah, I'd comment more, but the inevitable flagging that's coming up is really killing my interest in anything but one line quips.
    - matsemann 5y ago
      You got it backwards. It's the hostile one line quips making you get flagged.
      - kongin 5y ago
        No.
  - kyleee 5y ago
    Really depressing; our last chance at browser diversity and keeping the fate of the web out of Google's hands is being run by a white collar thief
gpm 5y ago
Mozilla doesn't seem to be interested in this, but I wonder if there are any individual firefox developers with a patreon?
- cptskippy 5y ago
  > Mozilla doesn't seem to be interested in this As someone who works on the digital payments/processing side of the house for a charity, I can tell you that accepting designations is a can of worms that smaller charities would certainly want to avoid.
  - dtech 5y ago
    Their nonprofit is already accepting donations and they are already selling services. I can't be that hard to "sell" a cosmetic Firefox Premium upgrade, although it might not be used enough to be worth it.
    - maccard 5y ago
      Why would you think that funds from firefox premium would only go to development for firefox? Do you think money you spend on Azure is ringfenced for Azure development and isn't ever spent on Microsoft Gaming (for example).
      - cptskippy 5y ago
        Many charities will accept donations with restrictions (e.g. Only for program X, Only for Research, etc).
        pessimizer 5y ago
        But they're not really enforceable because cash is fungible.
        mulmen 5y ago
pmurt7 5y ago
Mitchell Baker (Mozilla CEO) makes 3 million a year. It's actually very profitable for a nonprofit organization, isn't it? "On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask people and their families to commit to." This lady then goes on and on talking about "social justice".
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  "By 2020 her salary had risen to over $3 million, while in the same year the Mozilla Corporation had to lay off approximately 250 employees due to shrinking revenues. Baker blamed this on the Coronavirus pandemic." You can't make this shit up.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  Tell us about the CEO previous to her.
  - steinjones 5y ago
    Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy, which attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  i find the role of a "ceo" in mozilla as offensive as anything. for that matter any "management" role because it should be devs earning a buck while building cool software. nothing more, no paper pushing "managers" and ceos. why does mozilla need them anyways? who is forcing them to have one?
  - pmurt7 5y ago
    Mitchell Baker's blog: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/author/mitchellmozillacom/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/author/mitchellmozillacom/ Virtue signaling and progressive propaganda. Not a single word about Firefox. I bet Mitchell Baker can't even write a single line of code, yet she's leading a software company. Clown world at its finest.
dblohm7 5y ago
Pocket Premium and Mozilla VPN are about the closest you can get to money that goes into the coffers of Mozilla Corporation (instead of the Foundation).
baragiola 5y ago
Do you mean in market share or the actual product? Because I use Firefox daily and honestly feels less bloated and better to use than Chrome. I do use Chrome daily also, for some work-related apps
lukewrites 5y ago
I have seen jobs at Mozilla that I'm interested in, but I'm just too afraid that they'll do more eng layoffs that I don't want to go through the hassle of applying.
dr-detroit 5y ago
lol google pays for FF to exist you fools
freediver 5y ago
This. Only paying for a browser aligns the incentives of the browser company and the user. As long as customer of the browser != user of the browser, there is ample opportunity for conflict of interest.

Give me a way to pay for Firefox, please, and use the proceeds to hire a full development team that can hopefully catch up and overtake Chrome? Please?

by akie 5y ago

Give me a way to pay for Firefox, please, and use the proceeds to hire a full development team that can hopefully catch up and overtake Chrome? Please?

mijailt 5y ago

https://donate.mozilla.org https://donate.mozilla.org ?

Nextgrid 5y ago
> Contributions go to the Mozilla Foundation, a 501(c)(3) organisation based in San Francisco, California, to be used in its discretion for its charitable purposes. This goes to the Mozilla Foundation and not to the browser's development. As far as I know there is currently no way to donate to the browser's development.
- lifthrasiir 5y ago
  Buy products [1] from the Mozilla Corporation if it's your concern. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/products/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/products/
  - sedan_baklazhan 5y ago
    It is not something I would want to do from abroad.
  - gpm 5y ago
    That sounds like a way to fund development of their salable products, not firefox.
    - lifthrasiir 5y ago
      A browser has long been not a saleable product and buying side products is the closest thing you can do to fund its development. Not that it is satisfactory, but if you aren't doing that already then your complaints sound less credible IMO.
      - Nextgrid 5y ago
        The Enterprise™ spends insane money on security products, lots of which are bordeline snake-oil. There's no reason a browser couldn't be part of that, especially considering it's at the front line when it comes to threats and could actually make a real difference. Electron is also popular and Mozilla could produce a Firefox-based alternative (whose selling points could be performance/memory usage/battery life) and provide commercial support. Is it going to sustain extravagant salaries & bonuses for the C-suite? Debatable. But it can absolutely be a suitable business paying reasonable salaries.
      - kreeben 5y ago
        >> not a saleable product Isn't that a lot like saying "those sausages with toothpicks in them at the supermarket" are not saleable products?
akie 5y ago
Mozilla is not the same as Firefox, unfortunately. If I remember correctly Mozilla itself is relatively flush with money (through a deal they have with Google) and doesn't really need the money. Their chair is paid extremely well, in any case [1]. A lot of Mozilla's money seems to be spent on executive pay, overhead, and questionable side projects. Not so much (or not enough) on browser development, it seems. I'd MUCH prefer Firefox to be a product organization with its own budget and perhaps a yearly contribution from Mozilla. I have more faith in Firefox than in Mozilla. [1] https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html
- sciurus 5y ago
  This is on the right track but a bit confused. There are two entities: 1) The nonprofit Mozilla foundation 2) The Mozilla corporation The foundation owns the corporation. The corporation develops Firefox and is primarily funded by the Google search deal. It also develops pocket and the VPN and gets some funding from their sales. The foundation is funded by grants and donations, both from individuals and from other organizations (including from the corporation).

BitwiseFool 5y ago

>"hire a full development team that can hopefully catch up and overtake Chrome?" In an ideal world the best browser would win but marketshare doesn't work that way. Microsoft has full time development teams working on Edge and it is just barely chipping away at chrome's dominance. And, in no small part because they pester Windows users to make Edge the default at every opportunity.

kongin 5y ago
Edge is a chrome skin. They don't have engineers working on a browser, they have engineers working on a _theme_.
- Lendal 5y ago
  Really? So every time you bring in a dependency on a library written by someone else, your software is just a theme or wrapper? I guess that's one way to look at it.
  - no_time 5y ago
    if your python assignment is solved by import solution and some additional fluff (tracking,telemetry and other anti features in Edge's case) did you really do your homework?
    - hammyhavoc 5y ago
      Depends who you are turning your homework in to. :- )
  - kadoban 5y ago
    If you're making a browser and your dependency is a browser...yes.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - 5y ago

kongin 5y ago

> Give me a way to pay for Firefox, please, and use the proceeds to hire a full development team that can hopefully catch up and overtake Chrome? Please? Best we can do is spending the money on women who code outreach. Not sure what that has to do with web browsers, but I'm sure the CEO who managed to lose 80% market share knows better than me.

slig 5y ago
This chart is very telling [1] from [2]. [1]: https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg [2]: https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html https://calpaterson.com/mozilla.html
- kongin 5y ago
  Yeah, I'd comment more, but the inevitable flagging that's coming up is really killing my interest in anything but one line quips.
  - matsemann 5y ago
    You got it backwards. It's the hostile one line quips making you get flagged.
    - kongin 5y ago
      No.
- kyleee 5y ago
  Really depressing; our last chance at browser diversity and keeping the fate of the web out of Google's hands is being run by a white collar thief

gpm 5y ago

Mozilla doesn't seem to be interested in this, but I wonder if there are any individual firefox developers with a patreon?

cptskippy 5y ago
> Mozilla doesn't seem to be interested in this As someone who works on the digital payments/processing side of the house for a charity, I can tell you that accepting designations is a can of worms that smaller charities would certainly want to avoid.
- dtech 5y ago
  Their nonprofit is already accepting donations and they are already selling services. I can't be that hard to "sell" a cosmetic Firefox Premium upgrade, although it might not be used enough to be worth it.
  - maccard 5y ago
    Why would you think that funds from firefox premium would only go to development for firefox? Do you think money you spend on Azure is ringfenced for Azure development and isn't ever spent on Microsoft Gaming (for example).
    - cptskippy 5y ago
      Many charities will accept donations with restrictions (e.g. Only for program X, Only for Research, etc).
      - pessimizer 5y ago
        But they're not really enforceable because cash is fungible.
        mulmen 5y ago

pmurt7 5y ago

Mitchell Baker (Mozilla CEO) makes 3 million a year. It's actually very profitable for a nonprofit organization, isn't it? "On the same period, Firefox marketshare was down 85%. When asked about her salary she stated "I learned that my pay was about an 80% discount to market. Meaning that competitive roles elsewhere were paying about 5 times as much. That's too big a discount to ask people and their families to commit to." This lady then goes on and on talking about "social justice".

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
"By 2020 her salary had risen to over $3 million, while in the same year the Mozilla Corporation had to lay off approximately 250 employees due to shrinking revenues. Baker blamed this on the Coronavirus pandemic." You can't make this shit up.
dotancohen 5y ago
Tell us about the CEO previous to her.
- steinjones 5y ago
  Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy, which attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument.
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
i find the role of a "ceo" in mozilla as offensive as anything. for that matter any "management" role because it should be devs earning a buck while building cool software. nothing more, no paper pushing "managers" and ceos. why does mozilla need them anyways? who is forcing them to have one?
- pmurt7 5y ago
  Mitchell Baker's blog: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/author/mitchellmozillacom/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/author/mitchellmozillacom/ Virtue signaling and progressive propaganda. Not a single word about Firefox. I bet Mitchell Baker can't even write a single line of code, yet she's leading a software company. Clown world at its finest.

dblohm7 5y ago

Pocket Premium and Mozilla VPN are about the closest you can get to money that goes into the coffers of Mozilla Corporation (instead of the Foundation).

baragiola 5y ago

Do you mean in market share or the actual product? Because I use Firefox daily and honestly feels less bloated and better to use than Chrome. I do use Chrome daily also, for some work-related apps

lukewrites 5y ago

I have seen jobs at Mozilla that I'm interested in, but I'm just too afraid that they'll do more eng layoffs that I don't want to go through the hassle of applying.

dr-detroit 5y ago

lol google pays for FF to exist you fools

freediver 5y ago

This. Only paying for a browser aligns the incentives of the browser company and the user. As long as customer of the browser != user of the browser, there is ample opportunity for conflict of interest.