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Is this really the behavior of a hospital system on the brink of collapse due to an ongoing pandemic? Really? I'm meant to honestly believe that the hospital
by thepasswordis 5y ago
Is this really the behavior of a hospital system on the brink of collapse due to an ongoing pandemic? Really?
I'm meant to honestly believe that the hospital system is on the brink of collapse, and that you are now firing 1400 workers who have been the ones keeping it going for the last 20 months?
I think this might be my "yeah, the pandemic is officially over" moment. You don't fire the freaking healthcare workers in a time when you supposedly need them desperately.
- Covzire 5y agoEspecially when a lot of them have caught COVID and have anti-bodies against it. The number of lies (and censorship) being used to sell this mandate is pretty shocking. This won't end well for Democrats in 2022.
- travoc 5y agoI’m afraid to ask why having antibodies from a previous Covid infection isn’t as good or better than taking the vaccine.
- GaryTang 5y agoThe problem is if you can get natural immunity independently, how can you be dependent on the government? Reduced dependency for vaccines and healthcare will reduce the need for government intervention and reduce the justification for increased taxes and regulations.
- xjlin0 5y agoThere are many cases people get covid more than once, even some congressman I think.
- zeptonix 5y agoSending an upvote before all the downvotes come piling in...
- mullen 5y agoBecause you don't take a chance in dying if you get the vaccine but you do if you catch COVID. Also, you spread COVID when you get COIVD, you don't spread COVID when you get the COVID vaccine.
- beerandt 5y agoDoesn't excuse firing people who have already had it. Regardless of whatever the argument is about those who haven't had it.
- polartx 5y agoBroad strokes paint outside the lines. For a large portion of the population, COVID isn’t a death sentence. I had COVID not long ago and it was like every other flu I’ve ever had—aches, lethargy, over in 3 days. I didn’t even know it was COVID (instead of a normal flu) until my sense of smell was gone. (Back a week later)
- Covzire 5y agoWrong, you do take a chance getting the vaccine. The media and SV have been instrumental in keeping that fact from most of the public but the risks are very real. The benefits are also far less than originally hoped, we're seeing ICUs all around the world filling up with "fully vaccinated" people. The risks are unknown, the benefits are unknown, the censorship and group-think is real though. Fuck that, I won't be getting any of the current vaccines, I'll go homeless and defecating on the streets of SF before I allow any of the current Pfizer, J&J or MOderna jabs into my own body. Novavax looks a lot more promising, so if safety data for it isn't censored by the media and social media including Youtube, I'll gladly get one.
- willcipriano 5y agoI think it's mainly ego at this point. The establishment said that herd immunity won't work, accepting that those who already have had the disease are as immune as those with the vaccine would be in effect admitting they were wrong.
- bigodbiel 5y agoBecause the CDC insists on PCR-positive nonserovonversion cases as proof that previous infection does not guarantee antibodies.
- lamontcg 5y agoPCR-positive results don't necessary guarantee evidence of infection.
- AutumnCurtain 5y agoThey employ over 75,000 people, so 1,400 is not the shocking total it might seem. They also are not necessarily all in patient care roles.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 0des 5y agoI have heard remarks like this before in the restaurant industry. Like with dish-staff, even the Janitor is a critical role, doing an essential task that no other will do.
- munk-a 5y agoIt sucks - I wish these people didn't need to be let go - if only they had been warned repeatedly about the consequences of not getting the vaccine (to their health and their jobs), been given clear evidence on efficacy from trusted sources and hadn't bought into bullshit they read on facebook.
- stirlo 5y ago> Like with dish-staff, even the Janitor is a critical role, doing an essential task that no other will do. Easy to hire and train new janitors and dish-staff
- thepasswordis 5y ago
- seaman1921 5y ago> firing 1400 workers who have been the ones keeping it going for the last 20 months The fact that they kept it running doesn't mean they actually run the place now and can do as they wish. I only hope that the severance is good and reflects their contribution well, but they Northwell is well within their rights to require vaccination in their workplace now.
- akudha 5y agoNot saying firing is the best course of action, but they’re endangering others, so what choice do you have at this point? Vaccine has been available for months and it is free (while other countries are begging for it). We’ve asked nicely, tried educating, mandating, pleading … there are still people who refuse to vaccinate. I don’t know what the answer/solution is. But nobody has the right to put others at risk.
- tptacek 5y agoSure you do, if they're relatively low-skilled and straightforwardly replaceable, and they're endangering the rest of the staff by refusing to comply with health and safety requirements. This is 1.8% of their workforce. Their normal annual turnover is 8%.
- beervirus 5y ago> endangering the rest of the staff Where did this idea come from that we vaccinated people need to be protected from the unvaccinated? That’s what the vaccine is _for_, protecting us from the unvaccinated. And it’s good at its job!
- AdamHominem 5y agoPlease educate yourself on herd immunity.
- beervirus 5y agoDelta is so transmissible that herd immunity is no longer achievable even with 100% vaccinated.
- kitkat_new 5y agoit's not black & white
- neither_color 5y agoWhich edition of herd immunity, the early 2020 or 2021 definition? It's a moving target you see... https://web.archive.org/web/20201101161006/https:/www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-serology https://web.archive.org/web/20201101161006/https:/www.who.in... https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-covid-19-serology https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease...
- munk-a 5y ago
- woodruffw 5y agoThe healthcare system in this country is multifaceted, and has multiple points of failure. We've seen most (if not all) of them at various points: a lack of PPE, insufficient respirators and ICU beds, a lack of staffing, &c. Each of those is a sufficient condition for describing the system as "on the brink of collapse." As others have pointed out, those 1400 workers were also not necessarily essential medical personnel. All other things being equal, Joe in Billing is more likely to be resistant to getting his shot than Susie in Immunology.
- FormerBandmate 5y agoAlso, the worst of the Delta variant is over, and New York was never as much of an area under strain as red states were post-vaccination
- AndrewBissell 5y agoThat was just a matter of seasonality, and a quirk where the southern states which tend to be the least vaccinated also have late summer respiratory virus surges. Highly vaxxed Vermont has been experiencing a major surge, we might expect the same in New York although they might have a much higher proportion of naturally immune.
- woodruffw 5y agoYou're going to pass the last few months off on seasonality? That strains credulity.
- beerandt 5y agoSouthern states stay inside in the summer. Northern states stay inside in the winter.
- woodruffw 5y agoKentucky and Missouri have roughly the same climate zones as most of the Northeast, thanks to their inland position. A decent chunk of Missouri is actually in a colder climate zone than the NY metropolitan area[1]! [1]: https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map https://basc.pnnl.gov/images/iecc-climate-zone-map
- cma 5y agoWhile they aren't perfect, the vaccines do drop transmission rates. Why would they want more contagious people handling the elderly and immune compromised, or, even if they just relegated the unvaccinated to handling the young and healthy, spreading it more through the hospital system ultimately reaching elderly and immune compromised patients?
- ghaff 5y ago>Is this really the behavior of a hospital system on the brink of collapse due to an ongoing pandemic? I hope so. When better to fire workers who won't comply with safety protocols than in an "ongoing pandemic"?
- nojito 5y agoWhat is this logic? NYS implemented a mandate for all healthcare organizations to follow. Deadline was end of September and all organizations followed through on it.
- aaomidi 5y agoWould you hire a carpenter that didn't believe in nails? Or a software engineer that didn't believe in binary?
- rwcarlsen 5y agoThat's a pretty poor analogy. Nails are often the right and often the wrong tool for different circumstances. And there are different kinds of nails. Lots of carpenters have preferences for what types of hardware they use - based on their own experience and that of experience from others. And even if I disagreed with a carpenter on what tools were right for any given particular circumstance, it would be silly to try to micromanage them doing their job - just let them do their work!
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoI can see "nails vs screws" ending in a brawl if enough alcohol is served beforehand. The first punch would probably be thrown after the clipboard warrior makes some quip about dovetails and other "fastener free" joints and gets everyone riled up.
- rwcarlsen 5y agoI'm a draw-bored mortise and tenon guy myself.
- AdamHominem 5y agoBut if an expert in fasteners says "use this nail/bolt, made of this material and grade, for this application"...and then Joe Roofer says "WELL I actually work on roofs unlike those ivory tower mechanical and structural engineers, I'll use what I think is best" and then years later a couple people get killed... There are a lot of infamous incidents caused by people thinking they know better than the people who designed stuff and actually had training, experience, and education in that field. Doing things like changing fastener grades, or styles, or completely changing how something is put together. The most ready example I can think of is the hotel bridge collapse that killed a couple dozen people, because some mouth-breather thought he knew better than the structural engineers that drew up plans on how to anchor the bridge to its overhead supports. Virtually nobody at a hospital is qualified to second-guess vaccines, and the people who do are people I don't want anywhere near patient care because they're going to second-guess other experts, like the doctors they work with, the instructions for equipment and drugs, etc.
- lamassu 5y agoAs an emergency physician, good riddance to bad garbage. If they haven’t learned anything in the last 20 months then they deserve to go.
- libx 5y agoYour profession is a big fraud. Big fraud that is dismantled with knowledge, not the supposed one that you and your colleagues get brainwashed at the universities. Check where 'alumni' comes from. Check why you dress in black at universities. Check how your "medicine" was founded. Check who owns the pharmaceuticals, and by the way, all other giant multinationals. Check who does the supposed scientific research. Check where does the new religion of scientism comes from. If you check all these, we'll come to the conclusion that the bad garbage is inside the heads of so many that believe in the system. Then you'll begin to feel that this "medicine" is killing many, many people that could be saved. Those who believe that: a) is better to put some mask instead of breathing air and inputting oxygen into the body; b) is better to "stay at home" imprisoned instead of walking outside and taking sun; c) is better to be injected, as much as possible, with so many poisons instead of eating healthy (not by your "medicine" standards for sure), have good emotions and improve the immune system. I have some news to you: You are very very ill... from your heads!
- richrichardsson 5y agoCan someone please flag this garbage?
- libx 5y agoWhy don't you flag yourself? Go watch TV and play some more games, drink some cokes and get injected again.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- AdamHominem 5y agoAs a possible patient, good riddance as well. These people clearly don't believe in science and/or they don't believe in trusting experts and following their instructions. That's the last person I want anywhere near me. Especially if they're nurses. I've run across a lot of nurses who think they know better than doctors, and this seems like a fantastic way to weed them out. How much you want to bet "accidental" deaths go down after this?
- Etheryte 5y agoHealthcare workers are at the highest risk of contracting disease and spreading it to others. There are numerous reported cases where unvaccinated healthcare workers have transmitted illness to patients who had been brought in with other ailments, in a number of cases with fatal outcomes. Firing a very small part of your workforce who carries a very large risk makes perfect sense.
- ipaddr 5y agoThey should be protected and masked up. They are not the source of the highest risk. Stats say you are most likely to catch it from your kids.
- mint2 5y agoImmunocompromised and elderly hospital patients have some agency when it comes to galavanting with kids. They don’t really have a choice about hospital visits and have no meaningful way of verifying vaccination status of who interacts with them at the hospital. It’s bad enough they have trouble finding out if all their providers are in network, but at least that issue only means debt not death.
- Waterluvian 5y agoA lot of people are providing logical responses. But don’t forget that fundamentally even if what you say is true, it is in no sane universe a valid excuse not to fire these people. “We’re facing a terrible teacher shortage so we can’t fire the ones who abuse the kids just a little bit.”
- thepasswordis 5y ago>“We’re facing a terrible teacher shortage so we can’t fire the ones who abuse the kids just a little bit.” That is an absolutely absurd comparison.
- Waterluvian 5y agoNot really. Unvaccinated healthcare workers risk killing patients.
- pawelmurias 5y agoWe’re facing a terrible teacher shortage so we can’t fire those who refuse to teach evolution" Firing unqualified idiots is always an excellent choice.
- Redoubts 5y agoI’d fire nurses who refuse to wash their hands, too.
- ogurechny 5y agoWhat about these people? But no one has actually cared about people. From the very beginning, whole thing was about numbers, graphs, percentages, calculations, and other deathful thrills from the nuclear reaction in the media only wars could previously initiate. The already detached bureaucracies across the whole world have received a nitro injection, and nothing could stop their wheels. If Procrustean machine tells that they have to go, they have to go, and be thankful they are not getting shot in one day — there seems to be many people ready to pull the trigger if it's for the betterment of the humankind. Your caring about people is out of date, comrade. Trust the numbers!
- iammisc 5y agoMy fellow conservatives keep screaming about how the lockdown are communism, Marxism, etc. I vehemently disagree, and frankly hate their one trick pony of blaming communism for everything . Even Stalin and Lenin would be marveling at the way in which we've achieved authoritarianism. There's nothing communistic or Marxist about what's going on in America. It's purely the fault of capitalist technocracy.
- iammisc 5y ago> I think this might be my "yeah, the pandemic is officially over" moment. You don't fire the freaking healthcare workers in a time when you supposedly need them desperately. Welcome to the club. If there were the pandemic we were promised and made to be afraid of... we'd be seeing people collapsing in the street as the CCP made us believe. Yet, I don't even know anyone who's died of COVID. I know a handful of people who've had it. I know several people hospitalized for other random things. No COVID deaths. One COVID hospitalization (now recovered).