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It's not just Windows 10 Home. I have Windows 10 Pro. The other day after rebooting my laptop, I was prompted yet again with that setup page that tries to enabl

It's not just Windows 10 Home. I have Windows 10 Pro. The other day after rebooting my laptop, I was prompted yet again with that setup page that tries to enable useless shit like Office 365 and change my default browser to Edge. Honestly not sure how this can be legal after they got busted for something relatively mundane like setting the default to IE in the past.

neodymiumphish 5y ago
Looking at past legislation/court rulings from the early days of the internet is pointless. They ruled that AOL had to allow other applications access to AOL IM, yet present day third party apps aren't given access to Apple's iMessages or Facebook Messenger.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  > They ruled that AOL had to allow other applications access to AOL IM Citation?
  - neodymiumphish 5y ago
    I tried to find it, but I can't. Years back I recall a case, I think involving an app like Trillian, where they sued and won on the basis that they should be allowed to handle AIM messaging with native or near-native API access. Sorry, wish I had a source, as now I'm unsure whether this is true or just something I'm mis-remembering.
ffhhj 5y ago
The difference today is that dark patterns aren't monopolized.
zmmmmm 5y ago
It's actually the main reason I despise Apple for how it locks down iOS : it's not that I care specifically about that, but it creates cover for this kind of thing. The bar has been raised across the board now for what is tolerated.
- MiddleEndian 5y ago
  Mobile OSes as a whole seem to have lowered the standard for PC OSes. "Android/iOS do it so it's fine if we do it!"
soylentnewsorg 5y ago
Here's the thing - there's an actual reason that is beneficial to 90% of their customers that they do this. Let's take my wife. She got her lenovo laptop because it was silver and really thin, and had a touchscreen. She doesn't know what specs are - the laptop is just a tool. When she goes to do a google search, google's page keeps pushing chrome in her face. While she's trying to search for listings of gigs needing translation from Mandarin, Japanese, or Cantonese into English, the page she's on tells her she needs to click here and install chrome. She doesn't know what a browser or a Chrome are, so she thinks it's something she needs to do for the work search. Bam - she's now using Chrome. And he doesn't even notice the browser changed. Nor does she care. She never meant to install it or switch to it. Google is a bad player, and windows will check and once in a while ask if she wants to switch it back. Good. Me, a firefox user - I have literally zero issue clicking "no, leave my browser alone" twice a year. She uses some office apps for spreadsheet type work, and msword. She uses some windows functions like copying files, and backing up her phone. Telemetry lets microsoft know what she's doing, where she's getting confused or going into a loop pattern to do something, and when she tries something and gives up after it not making sense. They use that telemetry to improve their programs for people like her. Me - I turned that off. It's as easy as downloading winaero and clicking "disable telemetry" and "disable ads." This is not illegal because it's literally what 90% of Windows users want. People who don't want that are technically apt, and it takes about 2 minutes for us to turn that off. It's just a default for 90% of the users - a correct one.
- trutannus 5y ago
  That's fine, I don't think anyone has an issue with that. I think what people object to is that you can't turn that off fully.
  - soylentnewsorg 5y ago
    You absolutely can, via registry, group policy, or 3rd party apps. Have you ever gotten any of the browser change stuff or ads on your work laptop? I have not, ever, at any company. You can do that on your home computer too.
- 5y ago

neodymiumphish 5y ago

Looking at past legislation/court rulings from the early days of the internet is pointless. They ruled that AOL had to allow other applications access to AOL IM, yet present day third party apps aren't given access to Apple's iMessages or Facebook Messenger.

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
> They ruled that AOL had to allow other applications access to AOL IM Citation?
- neodymiumphish 5y ago
  I tried to find it, but I can't. Years back I recall a case, I think involving an app like Trillian, where they sued and won on the basis that they should be allowed to handle AIM messaging with native or near-native API access. Sorry, wish I had a source, as now I'm unsure whether this is true or just something I'm mis-remembering.

ffhhj 5y ago

The difference today is that dark patterns aren't monopolized.

zmmmmm 5y ago

It's actually the main reason I despise Apple for how it locks down iOS : it's not that I care specifically about that, but it creates cover for this kind of thing. The bar has been raised across the board now for what is tolerated.

MiddleEndian 5y ago
Mobile OSes as a whole seem to have lowered the standard for PC OSes. "Android/iOS do it so it's fine if we do it!"

soylentnewsorg 5y ago

Here's the thing - there's an actual reason that is beneficial to 90% of their customers that they do this. Let's take my wife. She got her lenovo laptop because it was silver and really thin, and had a touchscreen. She doesn't know what specs are - the laptop is just a tool. When she goes to do a google search, google's page keeps pushing chrome in her face. While she's trying to search for listings of gigs needing translation from Mandarin, Japanese, or Cantonese into English, the page she's on tells her she needs to click here and install chrome. She doesn't know what a browser or a Chrome are, so she thinks it's something she needs to do for the work search. Bam - she's now using Chrome. And he doesn't even notice the browser changed. Nor does she care. She never meant to install it or switch to it. Google is a bad player, and windows will check and once in a while ask if she wants to switch it back. Good. Me, a firefox user - I have literally zero issue clicking "no, leave my browser alone" twice a year. She uses some office apps for spreadsheet type work, and msword. She uses some windows functions like copying files, and backing up her phone. Telemetry lets microsoft know what she's doing, where she's getting confused or going into a loop pattern to do something, and when she tries something and gives up after it not making sense. They use that telemetry to improve their programs for people like her. Me - I turned that off. It's as easy as downloading winaero and clicking "disable telemetry" and "disable ads." This is not illegal because it's literally what 90% of Windows users want. People who don't want that are technically apt, and it takes about 2 minutes for us to turn that off. It's just a default for 90% of the users - a correct one.

trutannus 5y ago
That's fine, I don't think anyone has an issue with that. I think what people object to is that you can't turn that off fully.
- soylentnewsorg 5y ago
  You absolutely can, via registry, group policy, or 3rd party apps. Have you ever gotten any of the browser change stuff or ads on your work laptop? I have not, ever, at any company. You can do that on your home computer too.
5y ago