5 ms·

This is great but I feel like it's more important to educate people not to panic-buy fuel since that's adding a significant strain to the problem (thanks to the

This is great but I feel like it's more important to educate people not to panic-buy fuel since that's adding a significant strain to the problem (thanks to the media). If people filled up when they normally would have the problem wouldn't have been so huge. Also, why do I have to share my location? What happened to the good old days of just being able to enter postcode or town?!

Aeolun 5y ago
If everyone is panic buying, the only solution to your own fuel problems is to buy as well. This is ultimately worse for society, but the only rational response as a single actor.
- 12ian34 5y ago
  Surely there's another (partial) solution - reduce your own demand for fuel. Cars are generally overused in western countries which I think is one factor in the obesity pandemic.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    That's an idealistic sentiment, but the fact is that some people have no alternative to car ownership. They either live in the middle of nowhere, or their job is very hard to impossible to get to without a car, or they have poor transport links. Ultimately, for some it's about survival and the inability to work from home.
    - 12ian34 5y ago
      "Some" - but importantly - not "all"
rich_sasha 5y ago
>it's more important to educate people not to panic-buy fuel since that's adding a significant strain to the problem I wonder how true this actually is, certainly a useful narrative for the government. But surely, if fuel supply at point of sale is down 30%, there is 30% less fuel, no matter how you dress it. There were isolated reports of people bringing jerry cans to petrol stations, and I agree this is artificially inflating demand, but I'm not sure this is very widespread.
- oarsinsync 5y ago
  > There were isolated reports of people bringing jerry cans to petrol stations, and I agree this is artificially inflating demand, but I'm not sure this is very widespread. I know several people who have brought jerry cans to petrol stations. None of them were panic buying / hoarding. All of them were buying fuel for other people who were literally at zero, having burned whatever little they had left in queues that led to nothing. Beware the assumption that jerry cans == hoarding / panic buying. It's great for tabloids to stir up anger and resentment, but the real world is always more nuanced than the headline.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    Yeah I'm not judging. Also I can imagine people whose lives depend on petrol (taxi drivers, delivery drivers etc.), at least I sympathise with the position. In any case it seems to be the exceptions, not "everyone fills up the tank, then 20 jerry cans and a bottle of Coke".
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  It doesn't need to be panic buying, a relatively small increase in demand - 10-20% - can already put a lot of strain on the system. I don't recall there being much toilet paper hoarding over here, but stores were still sold out because people bought a little extra, just in case they would be out later.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    And then seemingly over-corrected for it - a while later (late 2020 iirc, or early this year) a Waitrose delivery driver gave me a pack (I hadn't ordered) for free. I was quite confused at the time, but I assume they were just dishing them out to free up capacity for other products. (I also assume stock control is quite highly automated, so you can certainly see how it would happen.)
  - Veen 5y ago
    Yes, that's a consequence of just in time supply chains. The benefit is that you dont' have to store a lot of product, but the downside is you run out unless you're careful about demand prediction.
dTal 5y ago
We're a week in, nobody's "panic buying", they're just... buying. People don't - can't - have giant fuel stashes at home. You fill up your tank and that's it, nowhere else to put fuel. There's a limit to how much demand can be explained by people with jerry cans - there simply aren't that many jerry cans around.
- 12ian34 5y ago
  > nobody's "panic buying" Whilst I cannot find empirical evidence illustrating the amount of "panic buying", it does seem to be quite widely accepted (across the government, media, general public and oil and gas industry) that people are panic buying. Unless you have evidence to support your claim I'm inclined to believe all the sources I've read.

Aeolun 5y ago

If everyone is panic buying, the only solution to your own fuel problems is to buy as well. This is ultimately worse for society, but the only rational response as a single actor.

12ian34 5y ago
Surely there's another (partial) solution - reduce your own demand for fuel. Cars are generally overused in western countries which I think is one factor in the obesity pandemic.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  That's an idealistic sentiment, but the fact is that some people have no alternative to car ownership. They either live in the middle of nowhere, or their job is very hard to impossible to get to without a car, or they have poor transport links. Ultimately, for some it's about survival and the inability to work from home.
  - 12ian34 5y ago
    "Some" - but importantly - not "all"

rich_sasha 5y ago

>it's more important to educate people not to panic-buy fuel since that's adding a significant strain to the problem I wonder how true this actually is, certainly a useful narrative for the government. But surely, if fuel supply at point of sale is down 30%, there is 30% less fuel, no matter how you dress it. There were isolated reports of people bringing jerry cans to petrol stations, and I agree this is artificially inflating demand, but I'm not sure this is very widespread.

oarsinsync 5y ago
> There were isolated reports of people bringing jerry cans to petrol stations, and I agree this is artificially inflating demand, but I'm not sure this is very widespread. I know several people who have brought jerry cans to petrol stations. None of them were panic buying / hoarding. All of them were buying fuel for other people who were literally at zero, having burned whatever little they had left in queues that led to nothing. Beware the assumption that jerry cans == hoarding / panic buying. It's great for tabloids to stir up anger and resentment, but the real world is always more nuanced than the headline.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  Yeah I'm not judging. Also I can imagine people whose lives depend on petrol (taxi drivers, delivery drivers etc.), at least I sympathise with the position. In any case it seems to be the exceptions, not "everyone fills up the tank, then 20 jerry cans and a bottle of Coke".
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
It doesn't need to be panic buying, a relatively small increase in demand - 10-20% - can already put a lot of strain on the system. I don't recall there being much toilet paper hoarding over here, but stores were still sold out because people bought a little extra, just in case they would be out later.
- OJFord 5y ago
  And then seemingly over-corrected for it - a while later (late 2020 iirc, or early this year) a Waitrose delivery driver gave me a pack (I hadn't ordered) for free. I was quite confused at the time, but I assume they were just dishing them out to free up capacity for other products. (I also assume stock control is quite highly automated, so you can certainly see how it would happen.)
- Veen 5y ago
  Yes, that's a consequence of just in time supply chains. The benefit is that you dont' have to store a lot of product, but the downside is you run out unless you're careful about demand prediction.

dTal 5y ago

We're a week in, nobody's "panic buying", they're just... buying. People don't - can't - have giant fuel stashes at home. You fill up your tank and that's it, nowhere else to put fuel. There's a limit to how much demand can be explained by people with jerry cans - there simply aren't that many jerry cans around.

12ian34 5y ago
> nobody's "panic buying" Whilst I cannot find empirical evidence illustrating the amount of "panic buying", it does seem to be quite widely accepted (across the government, media, general public and oil and gas industry) that people are panic buying. Unless you have evidence to support your claim I'm inclined to believe all the sources I've read.