3 ms·

Havana Syndrome most likely just crickets: declassified Dept of State report

46 points by graderjs 5y ago

r721 5y ago
The title seems misleading, from the article: "Noises linked to mysterious injuries among US diplomats in Cuba were most likely caused by crickets". Also: >"The 2018 JASON report, which was commissioned during the last administration, is not aligned with the Biden-Harris administration’s understanding of AHI [anomalous health incidents] and it has not informed our response," said a senior administration official, in a statement sent to BuzzFeed News. >"Because of the acknowledged shortcomings of previous studies, this administration has purposefully established a new panel of experts from across the Intelligence Community, academia, and the private sector with access to the full range of information available to the government to help us determine the cause of these incidents and generate new insights that can help protect our personnel.”
- SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
  It's hard to fully capture the context here in a headline, but the report isn't just talking about the noises. They conclude that the prevalent theory of some kind of directed energy weapon is "highly unlikely", although they don't claim to fully rule it out or definitively identify another cause. The fact that the Biden administration is commissioning another report doesn't indicate much about whether their conclusion is right; there's all sorts of reasons to commission a report.
elzbardico 5y ago
This administration has a less belligerent instance agains Cuba, some would say even friendly. No surprise here
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  The report is from 2018.
draw_down 5y ago
Funny. Sure seems like the “long covid” of government bureaucrats.
cheese_van 5y ago
As far as the Foreign Service experience goes, you're in a strange country where you often don't speak the language so everything is difficult. You may not be well liked, or worse, may be hated, and people may be trying to kill you. The opposition security services openly tail you wherever you go, bug your house, your telephone, and on top of that, your own CI people may be spying on you. The pressures to perform at work for Foreign Service are enormous, since (unlike the civil service), if you don't get promoted in a specific time window, you're fired. You work in a fish bowl, and cliques form mainly of effective people vs the dumb ones. It's extremely hierarchical, and if you're low on the totem pole, and you're ineffective, you're ignored and left out of the loop. Often the security services routinely surreptitiously break into your house and rearrange shit in your fridge, or other head-fuckery, just to intimidate you, and just to show they can. It's extremely difficult for people who aren't prepared for that environment. The ones that crack are usually civil servants overseas for the first time for domestic agencies like IRS, Social Security, FBI, Commerce, etc. Most larger embassies and consulates have a State Department shrink working there, for good reason. People lose their shit all the time. It's not particularly rare. Additionally, in the more difficult countries, you are essentially living with the people you work with. That can induce some particularly cruel claustrophobia. So, it's no wonder people are driven mad, either by each other, the environment or just crickets.
- isaacimagine 5y ago
  > Often the security services routinely surreptitiously break into your house [...] This isn't uniformly true.* I would say the newness of being in an unfamiliar place alone (e.g. 'the golden handcuffs') is enough to cause Havana-syndrome-like symptoms. * source: sample size of 1, but: grew up in the foreign service, never once observed or heard this happening to my / other families.
  - cheese_van 5y ago
    No it's not. It's not rare in "criteria" countries however. And being tailed and followed is routine. It's something you grow to not care about.
iJohnDoe 5y ago
It’s actually just an icy fractal aggregate ejected from a protoplanetary disk and was heard because swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the sound from Venus that caused the damage to those involved.
- CyanBird 5y ago
  Unlike the "high energy magic lazors" this seems actually feasible, yeah, heh
poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
Or it's like 8 or 10G radio freq technology that certain govs use.
abvdasker 5y ago
In America we can get unanimous support to provide healthcare for CIA agents suffering from a disease that doesn’t exist, but giving free healthcare to regular people is politically unthinkable. https://www.collins.senate.gov/newsroom/bill-support-%E2%80%98havana-syndrome%E2%80%99-victims-unanimously-passes-senate https://www.collins.senate.gov/newsroom/bill-support-%E2%80%...
- CyanBird 5y ago
  Forget about "normal people", it took a famed TV star and comedian just to ensure that politicians would maintain the 9/11 victims fund going
jsiepkes 5y ago
Interesting. Here in the Netherlands this is called "laag frequent geluid" and is becoming more and more seen as a health problem. Primarily because it can drive people nuts... In cities with a lot of industry you can call the environmental service for such a thing and they will come and do measurements [1]. The health department of the government also has special pages on it [2]. [1] https://www-dcmr-nl.translate.goog/overlast-door-bromtoon-laagfrequent-geluid?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=nui https://www-dcmr-nl.translate.goog/overlast-door-bromtoon-la... [2] https://www-rivm-nl.translate.goog/geluid/laagfrequent-geluid?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=nui https://www-rivm-nl.translate.goog/geluid/laagfrequent-gelui...
- themodelplumber 5y ago
  > this is called "laag frequent geluid" "Nuisance due to hum or low-frequency noise", in case anyone was wondering if it was literally a higher level of cricket-awareness in the Netherlands.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

46 points by graderjs 5y ago

r721 5y ago

The title seems misleading, from the article: "Noises linked to mysterious injuries among US diplomats in Cuba were most likely caused by crickets". Also: >"The 2018 JASON report, which was commissioned during the last administration, is not aligned with the Biden-Harris administration’s understanding of AHI [anomalous health incidents] and it has not informed our response," said a senior administration official, in a statement sent to BuzzFeed News. >"Because of the acknowledged shortcomings of previous studies, this administration has purposefully established a new panel of experts from across the Intelligence Community, academia, and the private sector with access to the full range of information available to the government to help us determine the cause of these incidents and generate new insights that can help protect our personnel.”

SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
It's hard to fully capture the context here in a headline, but the report isn't just talking about the noises. They conclude that the prevalent theory of some kind of directed energy weapon is "highly unlikely", although they don't claim to fully rule it out or definitively identify another cause. The fact that the Biden administration is commissioning another report doesn't indicate much about whether their conclusion is right; there's all sorts of reasons to commission a report.

elzbardico 5y ago

This administration has a less belligerent instance agains Cuba, some would say even friendly. No surprise here

hprotagonist 5y ago
The report is from 2018.

draw_down 5y ago

Funny. Sure seems like the “long covid” of government bureaucrats.

cheese_van 5y ago

As far as the Foreign Service experience goes, you're in a strange country where you often don't speak the language so everything is difficult. You may not be well liked, or worse, may be hated, and people may be trying to kill you. The opposition security services openly tail you wherever you go, bug your house, your telephone, and on top of that, your own CI people may be spying on you. The pressures to perform at work for Foreign Service are enormous, since (unlike the civil service), if you don't get promoted in a specific time window, you're fired. You work in a fish bowl, and cliques form mainly of effective people vs the dumb ones. It's extremely hierarchical, and if you're low on the totem pole, and you're ineffective, you're ignored and left out of the loop. Often the security services routinely surreptitiously break into your house and rearrange shit in your fridge, or other head-fuckery, just to intimidate you, and just to show they can. It's extremely difficult for people who aren't prepared for that environment. The ones that crack are usually civil servants overseas for the first time for domestic agencies like IRS, Social Security, FBI, Commerce, etc. Most larger embassies and consulates have a State Department shrink working there, for good reason. People lose their shit all the time. It's not particularly rare. Additionally, in the more difficult countries, you are essentially living with the people you work with. That can induce some particularly cruel claustrophobia. So, it's no wonder people are driven mad, either by each other, the environment or just crickets.

isaacimagine 5y ago
> Often the security services routinely surreptitiously break into your house [...] This isn't uniformly true.* I would say the newness of being in an unfamiliar place alone (e.g. 'the golden handcuffs') is enough to cause Havana-syndrome-like symptoms. * source: sample size of 1, but: grew up in the foreign service, never once observed or heard this happening to my / other families.
- cheese_van 5y ago
  No it's not. It's not rare in "criteria" countries however. And being tailed and followed is routine. It's something you grow to not care about.

iJohnDoe 5y ago

It’s actually just an icy fractal aggregate ejected from a protoplanetary disk and was heard because swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the sound from Venus that caused the damage to those involved.

CyanBird 5y ago
Unlike the "high energy magic lazors" this seems actually feasible, yeah, heh

poorjohnmacafee 5y ago

Or it's like 8 or 10G radio freq technology that certain govs use.

abvdasker 5y ago

In America we can get unanimous support to provide healthcare for CIA agents suffering from a disease that doesn’t exist, but giving free healthcare to regular people is politically unthinkable. https://www.collins.senate.gov/newsroom/bill-support-%E2%80%98havana-syndrome%E2%80%99-victims-unanimously-passes-senate https://www.collins.senate.gov/newsroom/bill-support-%E2%80%...

CyanBird 5y ago
Forget about "normal people", it took a famed TV star and comedian just to ensure that politicians would maintain the 9/11 victims fund going

jsiepkes 5y ago

Interesting. Here in the Netherlands this is called "laag frequent geluid" and is becoming more and more seen as a health problem. Primarily because it can drive people nuts... In cities with a lot of industry you can call the environmental service for such a thing and they will come and do measurements [1]. The health department of the government also has special pages on it [2]. [1] https://www-dcmr-nl.translate.goog/overlast-door-bromtoon-laagfrequent-geluid?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=nui https://www-dcmr-nl.translate.goog/overlast-door-bromtoon-la... [2] https://www-rivm-nl.translate.goog/geluid/laagfrequent-geluid?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=nl&_x_tr_pto=nui https://www-rivm-nl.translate.goog/geluid/laagfrequent-gelui...

themodelplumber 5y ago
> this is called "laag frequent geluid" "Nuisance due to hum or low-frequency noise", in case anyone was wondering if it was literally a higher level of cricket-awareness in the Netherlands.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]