7 ms·

Game where you build a CPU and assembly language from circuits

132 points by RAWR1337 5y ago

bobkrusty 5y ago
Is this a simulation ??? Can i use the knowledge from game to build a real life CPU.
- WJW 5y ago
  Yes, AFAICT you could build a (very basic) CPU that works with the skills you'll learn. Don't expect to challenge Intel and AMD anytime soon though.
  - mrjin 5y ago
    I feel you might be a little bit too optimistic. Did almost much simpler thing when I was at university. It was much more involved than it looked like. There are so many gotchas you would never anticipate until you get started. The most common scenario would be the diagram looks alright, but when you put all part together, it just does not work.
- junon 5y ago
  Yes and yes (in theory). To actually design the circuitry and fabricate it is well beyond the scope of this game (I'm playing it right now).
- Tyr42 5y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS0N5baNlQWJCUrhCEo8WlA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS0N5baNlQWJCUrhCEo8WlA You can also watch Ben Eater's videos.
moh_maya 5y ago
/off topic I am learning to design PCBs, and while I have a basic understanding of the components (viz. resistors, diodes, transistors, etc) as the board gets populated with more components, (consider, for instance, an arduino dev board), it is just very challenging to build a model of how the entire board works - the logic etc. Further, a good part of modern microcontroller boards is dedicated to (I think), power delivery and conditioning. Getting a functional model / representation of the entire board in my head has been a huge, as yet insurmountable, challenge. Are there any good games that can help me wrap my head around these concepts?
- amelius 5y ago
  You should think in subsystems. Design a module, and then think of it as a basic component (like a resistor or a microcontroller is a component). Do not keep thinking about all the parts it is composed of. Use the power of abstraction.
  - swalsh 5y ago
    Thats one of the really nice parts of shields. They make it very easy to think about the high level modules. The hard part of designing PCB's was finding components. I tried to build one, but by the time I finally had a design one of the IC's would be out of stock, and I'd have to find a replacement. The downstream effects of that change would take time to deal with, and when I finally finished I'd run into the same issue again. I ended up just giving up. I wish the PCB design software let me stay on this module level.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Engineers will deliberately break things up into subsystems on the board. Engineering is about making a safe and effective product in a timeframe (read: budget) suitable for the customer, it's not about perfection. You are allowed to approximate. You can see this on some PCBs where a decision has clearly been made to separate (say) two different digital subsystems, which could be more efficient if mingled, but is only feasible for their resources if designed and verified separately.
Guthur 5y ago
Phew, still early access. I thought I was going lose my week there :p. Not really a criticism of the developers choice but personally I find the prevalence of early access infuriating. I often play games for awhile and then move on. I also love that initial discovery side of a game. But of these facts are not overly compatible with early access.
- krisoft 5y ago
  Don’t buy it then? Buy it only when it is out of early access if it ever will be? If you like chicken are you also infuriated by all the people who sell pork? It is not like the developer had a choice between selling a ready version today vs a not-so-ready version today and they choose to release the not-so-ready version.
  - Guthur 5y ago
    I'm not sure how I could have been any clearer. I said I was not criticising the choice by the individual developer but rather voicing my frustration at the prevalence of that choice. I don't eat pork so I don't actually care about that particular market. And for the record I won't be, I generally don't buy EA.
    - linkdd 5y ago
      I'd rather have a ton of Early Access games, where players can take part to the development of the game (by giving valuable feedback to the developers and funding the development), than AAA games that are released incomplete and full of bugs like the CyberPunk fiasco. Or have a third of the content, then the rest as DLC like Paradox or EA does.
      - colejohnson66 5y ago
        EA does seem to be used as a crutch by AAA games. “Look, we missed the deadline, but we’re releasing it anyways as an ‘early access,’ so don’t be mad if it sucks.” Maybe I’m just biased, but “indie” games that go early access make much more sense than AAA because it’s one person versus dozens or hundreds.
lbj 5y ago
Pure genius. Should be offered in every school
Philip-J-Fry 5y ago
Ooo, this looks interesting. I'm a huge fan of the Zachtronics games which employ some sort of assembly programming.
shireboy 5y ago
This looks pretty neat. I assume you only beat the game when you use the computer you create to create a game where you build a CPU and assembly language from circuits?
- tromp 5y ago
  Like this Life in Life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8
YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
That kind of game is too much like work.
- gtirloni 5y ago
  It's why I got into this industry.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  Maybe, but it's like work but without although all those dogshit vendor toolchains and horrible hacky EDA languages.
jasmaa 5y ago
I really like this idea. I remember working through the Nand2Tetris course [0] which essentially has the same idea of letting you build a computer from scratch. The course's chip fabrication sections had a limited number of simple solutions, so designing chips really did feel more akin to solving puzzles than writing code. One thing I'm curious about is how level progression works. Do I get standard implementations for the circuits I've previously made? Or do I have to carry my implementations with me for the rest of the game, bugs included? [0]: https://www.nand2tetris.org/ https://www.nand2tetris.org/
pwr-electronics 5y ago
Really neat idea. It hurts readability to distinguish logic gates with text instead of their traditional symbols. And it's not clear to me if the trace animations add information, the way that they do in the Falstad simulator, or if they're just aesthetic. But for an early access game, I think it looks great and the idea is solid. I don't know of another game based on the computer hardware-software interface, so it seems to be filling a gap too.
linkdd 5y ago
Looks like MHRD[0] with a GUI. [0] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/576030/MHRD/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/576030/MHRD/
keitmo 5y ago
The reminds me of Rocky's Boots(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky%27s_Boots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky%27s_Boots) taken up a few levels.
- djmips 5y ago
  Do you know about Robot Odyssey? Which was a same era sequel which took Rocky's boots up a level. Great game and even more the spiritual ancestor of this game it seems.
rmak 5y ago
Coursera has both NAND to Tetris parts up now.
tromp 5y ago
There's also this toy puzzle game for mechanical computing https://www.turingtumble.com/ https://www.turingtumble.com/
bo0tzz 5y ago
If you like this game, you might also enjoy Ben Eater's breadboard computer! https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypGqImE405J2565dvjafglHU https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypGqImE405J2565d...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- gecko_ 5y ago
  I highly second this. I found his videos so inspiring that I build my own adaption of his cpu.
- ngcc_hk 5y ago
  Great learning tool
- davegauer 5y ago
  Still building mine. An incredible learning exercise. If you want to save some considerable hassle sourcing parts, you can buy the computer modules as kits: https://eater.net/8bit/kits https://eater.net/8bit/kits I build the Clock Module first to make sure I would enjoy it and stick with it. I ordered the rest as soon as that was complete.
remram 5y ago
Reminds me of https://nandgame.com https://nandgame.com (free, web-based) where you build a CPU starting from NAND gates (building other gates, then registers, then clock, RAM, ALU, all the way to a processor).
TeeMassive 5y ago
Reminds me of https://store.steampowered.com/app/504210/SHENZHEN_IO/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/504210/SHENZHEN_IO/
a_large_rat00 5y ago
Hey, this is really cool. I've always wondered how this stuff works beneath the abstraction of high-level languages. Thanks for sharing!
jshaqaw 5y ago
This looks fantastic. This generation needs a Robot Odyssey.
xyzzy21 5y ago
Well, it's interesting but not "game interesting" - because doing this quickly becomes a full-time job. On the other hand, people already prone to enjoying it as a job will probably love it.

132 points by RAWR1337 5y ago

bobkrusty 5y ago

Is this a simulation ??? Can i use the knowledge from game to build a real life CPU.

WJW 5y ago
Yes, AFAICT you could build a (very basic) CPU that works with the skills you'll learn. Don't expect to challenge Intel and AMD anytime soon though.
- mrjin 5y ago
  I feel you might be a little bit too optimistic. Did almost much simpler thing when I was at university. It was much more involved than it looked like. There are so many gotchas you would never anticipate until you get started. The most common scenario would be the diagram looks alright, but when you put all part together, it just does not work.
junon 5y ago
Yes and yes (in theory). To actually design the circuitry and fabricate it is well beyond the scope of this game (I'm playing it right now).
Tyr42 5y ago
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS0N5baNlQWJCUrhCEo8WlA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS0N5baNlQWJCUrhCEo8WlA You can also watch Ben Eater's videos.

moh_maya 5y ago

/off topic I am learning to design PCBs, and while I have a basic understanding of the components (viz. resistors, diodes, transistors, etc) as the board gets populated with more components, (consider, for instance, an arduino dev board), it is just very challenging to build a model of how the entire board works - the logic etc. Further, a good part of modern microcontroller boards is dedicated to (I think), power delivery and conditioning. Getting a functional model / representation of the entire board in my head has been a huge, as yet insurmountable, challenge. Are there any good games that can help me wrap my head around these concepts?

amelius 5y ago
You should think in subsystems. Design a module, and then think of it as a basic component (like a resistor or a microcontroller is a component). Do not keep thinking about all the parts it is composed of. Use the power of abstraction.
- swalsh 5y ago
  Thats one of the really nice parts of shields. They make it very easy to think about the high level modules. The hard part of designing PCB's was finding components. I tried to build one, but by the time I finally had a design one of the IC's would be out of stock, and I'd have to find a replacement. The downstream effects of that change would take time to deal with, and when I finally finished I'd run into the same issue again. I ended up just giving up. I wish the PCB design software let me stay on this module level.
mhh__ 5y ago
Engineers will deliberately break things up into subsystems on the board. Engineering is about making a safe and effective product in a timeframe (read: budget) suitable for the customer, it's not about perfection. You are allowed to approximate. You can see this on some PCBs where a decision has clearly been made to separate (say) two different digital subsystems, which could be more efficient if mingled, but is only feasible for their resources if designed and verified separately.

Guthur 5y ago

Phew, still early access. I thought I was going lose my week there :p. Not really a criticism of the developers choice but personally I find the prevalence of early access infuriating. I often play games for awhile and then move on. I also love that initial discovery side of a game. But of these facts are not overly compatible with early access.

krisoft 5y ago
Don’t buy it then? Buy it only when it is out of early access if it ever will be? If you like chicken are you also infuriated by all the people who sell pork? It is not like the developer had a choice between selling a ready version today vs a not-so-ready version today and they choose to release the not-so-ready version.
- Guthur 5y ago
  I'm not sure how I could have been any clearer. I said I was not criticising the choice by the individual developer but rather voicing my frustration at the prevalence of that choice. I don't eat pork so I don't actually care about that particular market. And for the record I won't be, I generally don't buy EA.
  - linkdd 5y ago
    I'd rather have a ton of Early Access games, where players can take part to the development of the game (by giving valuable feedback to the developers and funding the development), than AAA games that are released incomplete and full of bugs like the CyberPunk fiasco. Or have a third of the content, then the rest as DLC like Paradox or EA does.
    - colejohnson66 5y ago
      EA does seem to be used as a crutch by AAA games. “Look, we missed the deadline, but we’re releasing it anyways as an ‘early access,’ so don’t be mad if it sucks.” Maybe I’m just biased, but “indie” games that go early access make much more sense than AAA because it’s one person versus dozens or hundreds.

lbj 5y ago

Pure genius. Should be offered in every school

Philip-J-Fry 5y ago

Ooo, this looks interesting. I'm a huge fan of the Zachtronics games which employ some sort of assembly programming.

shireboy 5y ago

This looks pretty neat. I assume you only beat the game when you use the computer you create to create a game where you build a CPU and assembly language from circuits?

tromp 5y ago
Like this Life in Life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago

That kind of game is too much like work.

gtirloni 5y ago
It's why I got into this industry.
mhh__ 5y ago
Maybe, but it's like work but without although all those dogshit vendor toolchains and horrible hacky EDA languages.

jasmaa 5y ago

I really like this idea. I remember working through the Nand2Tetris course [0] which essentially has the same idea of letting you build a computer from scratch. The course's chip fabrication sections had a limited number of simple solutions, so designing chips really did feel more akin to solving puzzles than writing code. One thing I'm curious about is how level progression works. Do I get standard implementations for the circuits I've previously made? Or do I have to carry my implementations with me for the rest of the game, bugs included? [0]: https://www.nand2tetris.org/ https://www.nand2tetris.org/

pwr-electronics 5y ago

Really neat idea. It hurts readability to distinguish logic gates with text instead of their traditional symbols. And it's not clear to me if the trace animations add information, the way that they do in the Falstad simulator, or if they're just aesthetic. But for an early access game, I think it looks great and the idea is solid. I don't know of another game based on the computer hardware-software interface, so it seems to be filling a gap too.

linkdd 5y ago

Looks like MHRD[0] with a GUI. [0] - https://store.steampowered.com/app/576030/MHRD/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/576030/MHRD/

keitmo 5y ago

The reminds me of Rocky's Boots(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky%27s_Boots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky%27s_Boots) taken up a few levels.

djmips 5y ago
Do you know about Robot Odyssey? Which was a same era sequel which took Rocky's boots up a level. Great game and even more the spiritual ancestor of this game it seems.

rmak 5y ago

Coursera has both NAND to Tetris parts up now.

tromp 5y ago

There's also this toy puzzle game for mechanical computing https://www.turingtumble.com/ https://www.turingtumble.com/

bo0tzz 5y ago

If you like this game, you might also enjoy Ben Eater's breadboard computer! https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypGqImE405J2565dvjafglHU https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypGqImE405J2565d...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gecko_ 5y ago
I highly second this. I found his videos so inspiring that I build my own adaption of his cpu.
ngcc_hk 5y ago
Great learning tool
davegauer 5y ago
Still building mine. An incredible learning exercise. If you want to save some considerable hassle sourcing parts, you can buy the computer modules as kits: https://eater.net/8bit/kits https://eater.net/8bit/kits I build the Clock Module first to make sure I would enjoy it and stick with it. I ordered the rest as soon as that was complete.

remram 5y ago

Reminds me of https://nandgame.com https://nandgame.com (free, web-based) where you build a CPU starting from NAND gates (building other gates, then registers, then clock, RAM, ALU, all the way to a processor).

TeeMassive 5y ago

Reminds me of https://store.steampowered.com/app/504210/SHENZHEN_IO/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/504210/SHENZHEN_IO/

a_large_rat00 5y ago

Hey, this is really cool. I've always wondered how this stuff works beneath the abstraction of high-level languages. Thanks for sharing!

jshaqaw 5y ago

This looks fantastic. This generation needs a Robot Odyssey.

xyzzy21 5y ago

Well, it's interesting but not "game interesting" - because doing this quickly becomes a full-time job. On the other hand, people already prone to enjoying it as a job will probably love it.