11 ms·

Virtually no one left to vaccinate in Portugal: 98% of those eligible vaccinated

80 points by Geekette 5y ago

ohcomments 5y ago
Portuguese will basically suck up anything that says "freedom" in it... The idea passed around is that the vaccine allows you to freely go anywhere and with that everyone just went because staying home or staying at distance is just something the Portuguese don't really like. They don't have an opinion on anything since 1974... Everything and anything you place in front of them they take without question. Trust me... I'm portuguese but I've ascended from that brainwashed nation of ours.
- hyproxia 5y ago
  >ascended from that brainwashed nation Are you sure that you aren't the brainwashed one?
  - ohcomments 5y ago
    Because I openly criticize my own nation and people? Maybe... You forgot to copy the "of ours" part... Sorry if you got hurt out of my comment, it was not my objective to hurt any feelings but only state what's really happening and that most might not realize as they're not in contact with it.
  - mdp2021 5y ago
    You should very probably make sure that your statements do not seem to come from Eliza. Substantiate them, ground them, make them defensible - and not oracular: if there are signs of, contextually, «brainwash[ing]» in the poster's statements, make them explicit. Eliza could have written what you did. And with that, you have been gratuitously offensive. So, where do you see "brainwashing" there?
dv_dt 5y ago
I always thought the US should have been harnessing ad agencies and Hollywood production companies in its public outreach for covid. Instead I think it overrelied on basically politicians or administrative heads of various govt depts appointed by politicians.
- cyounkins 5y ago
  I think many people didn't expect US vaccination to be as difficult as it has turned out to be. Anti-vaccine sentiment existed before covid but in a smaller proportion (at least in my eyes). Using hindsight I agree with you and think that could have been more effective.
- derstander 5y ago
  > Hollywood production companies I don’t disagree that messaging in the US about Covid could have been improved. But I think there’s a reasonable chunk of the population that would assume malicious intent (or at least political intent) in anything coming out of Hollywood. And there might be a fair amount of overlap with folks currently hesitant or outright refusing the vaccine. I’d be interested in a historian’s take on messaging re: Covid in comparison with messaging re: polio or the like. I think there will be a lot of scholarship in sociology and public health about Covid in the years to come.
  - avastmick 5y ago
    This site is interesting on the history. https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/history-anti-vaccination-movements https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/history-a...
  - HelixEndeavor 5y ago
    That assumption would be completely justified since Hollywood is a reeking den of exploitative pedophilic rats.
  - dv_dt 5y ago
    To be clear I wasn’t bringing up Hollywood to get celebrities, I was just thinking higher production value public information spots. I don’t think there would be any added particular pushback there - no one rejects high production value Marvel movies just because they from Hollywood.
- huuuz 5y ago
  ??? What's more political than a Hollywood movie company? How many conservative movies or TV shows have you seen lately?
Barrin92 5y ago
the article in passing mentions the key difference. People in Portugal don't pathologically question every source of authority. If you had trotted out a military general in uniform in the US talking about the war against vaccines one hour later every talk radio host would have started ranting about how the military has been undermined by the deep state and so on. Conspiracy logic cannot be argued with because if commitment is strong enough everything that is seen as contrary evidence is just incorporated. "Oh great, now they're pretending they're apolitical!" etc. You've seen it already with other military personnel on different issues. Also the culture in continental Europe vis-a-vis the military is entirely different. It's not that it's less political but more so, a lot of European countries even in very relative history have been governed by military authority at times. one only needs to look at the shocked "army in the streets" articles after every terror attack in the english-speaking press. I don't think this can be transplanted to the US.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  We are also allergic to anything else that brings memories from pre-1974 days. If someone would try to make too much of right wing kind of stuff, "April never again" would be chanted on the streets. Unfortunately, when my generation is gone, that kind of resistance will be gone as well.
- HelixEndeavor 5y ago
  Are you trying to suggest that questioning authority figures is a flaw?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    Anything taken to excess is a flaw. parent comment said "pathologically question", do not deliberately misinterpret.
    - native_samples 5y ago
      But nobody is "pathologically questioning" anything around vaccines, regardless of what some people may wish to believe. The questions are all very much relevant, on point and - given the untrustworthy nature of public health authorities up to this point - necessary to ask.
waterglassFull 5y ago
I was in Portugal last week and was surprised by how safe it felt. Everyone still wears masks indoors and in built up areas, sanitiser was available everywhere, people checked our vaccination status when sitting indoors. They're not major points but it definitely felt like people went out of their way to be conscious of others and the virus which is different to how I feel people in the UK treat the virus now (eg mask usage on the tube is virtually non existent). Most of this is largely anecdotal on my part but I feel countries that continue to do a little now will get long term benefits (eg mandatory mask use in public transport)
- Proven 5y ago
  > I was in Portugal last week and was surprised by how safe it felt. That may be because you didn't know how many of those around you got their 2nd shot before last spring, and that masks don't significantly help. But it's important how you "feel", I get that. "Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine antibodies gone by 7 months for many" - https://news.trust.org/item/20211001194329-xkwip https://news.trust.org/item/20211001194329-xkwip You may sometime want to consider the cost of government policies that has to be borne by other, unwilling participants in those schemes.
  - smorgusofborg 5y ago
    It may be that they feel safe because they are about as safe as before COVID existed. When I have examined the data of countries compared to their vaccination rate the substantially lower death rate has been very clear. Israel's quick Pfizer roll out had additional break through cases, but continued spread primarily cost non-vaccinated lives. For the rest of us we have a different flu season now.
- HelixEndeavor 5y ago
  >how safe it felt. You mean how authoritarian it felt. I can't believe people's brains have devolved over the past 18 months to the point that seeing a society live in constant fear and have to present papers gestapo-style to participate in society is perceived as "wow I feel safe here". You'd have loved to live under fascism, because of how "safe" you would feel under your extreme government authority.
mdp2021 5y ago
For those who could not immediately interpret the number in the title (before reading the article): the vaccinated in Portugal are 88% of the total population, and 98% of those eligible (principally owing to age).
traveler01 5y ago
And somehow we didn’t got our freedom back.

80 points by Geekette 5y ago

Portuguese will basically suck up anything that says "freedom" in it... The idea passed around is that the vaccine allows you to freely go anywhere and with that everyone just went because staying home or staying at distance is just something the Portuguese don't really like. They don't have an opinion on anything since 1974... Everything and anything you place in front of them they take without question. Trust me... I'm portuguese but I've ascended from that brainwashed nation of ours.

hyproxia 5y ago
>ascended from that brainwashed nation Are you sure that you aren't the brainwashed one?
- ohcomments 5y ago
  Because I openly criticize my own nation and people? Maybe... You forgot to copy the "of ours" part... Sorry if you got hurt out of my comment, it was not my objective to hurt any feelings but only state what's really happening and that most might not realize as they're not in contact with it.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  You should very probably make sure that your statements do not seem to come from Eliza. Substantiate them, ground them, make them defensible - and not oracular: if there are signs of, contextually, «brainwash[ing]» in the poster's statements, make them explicit. Eliza could have written what you did. And with that, you have been gratuitously offensive. So, where do you see "brainwashing" there?

dv_dt 5y ago

I always thought the US should have been harnessing ad agencies and Hollywood production companies in its public outreach for covid. Instead I think it overrelied on basically politicians or administrative heads of various govt depts appointed by politicians.

cyounkins 5y ago
I think many people didn't expect US vaccination to be as difficult as it has turned out to be. Anti-vaccine sentiment existed before covid but in a smaller proportion (at least in my eyes). Using hindsight I agree with you and think that could have been more effective.
derstander 5y ago
> Hollywood production companies I don’t disagree that messaging in the US about Covid could have been improved. But I think there’s a reasonable chunk of the population that would assume malicious intent (or at least political intent) in anything coming out of Hollywood. And there might be a fair amount of overlap with folks currently hesitant or outright refusing the vaccine. I’d be interested in a historian’s take on messaging re: Covid in comparison with messaging re: polio or the like. I think there will be a lot of scholarship in sociology and public health about Covid in the years to come.
- avastmick 5y ago
  This site is interesting on the history. https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/history-anti-vaccination-movements https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/history-a...
- HelixEndeavor 5y ago
  That assumption would be completely justified since Hollywood is a reeking den of exploitative pedophilic rats.
- dv_dt 5y ago
  To be clear I wasn’t bringing up Hollywood to get celebrities, I was just thinking higher production value public information spots. I don’t think there would be any added particular pushback there - no one rejects high production value Marvel movies just because they from Hollywood.
huuuz 5y ago
??? What's more political than a Hollywood movie company? How many conservative movies or TV shows have you seen lately?

Barrin92 5y ago

the article in passing mentions the key difference. People in Portugal don't pathologically question every source of authority. If you had trotted out a military general in uniform in the US talking about the war against vaccines one hour later every talk radio host would have started ranting about how the military has been undermined by the deep state and so on. Conspiracy logic cannot be argued with because if commitment is strong enough everything that is seen as contrary evidence is just incorporated. "Oh great, now they're pretending they're apolitical!" etc. You've seen it already with other military personnel on different issues. Also the culture in continental Europe vis-a-vis the military is entirely different. It's not that it's less political but more so, a lot of European countries even in very relative history have been governed by military authority at times. one only needs to look at the shocked "army in the streets" articles after every terror attack in the english-speaking press. I don't think this can be transplanted to the US.

pjmlp 5y ago
We are also allergic to anything else that brings memories from pre-1974 days. If someone would try to make too much of right wing kind of stuff, "April never again" would be chanted on the streets. Unfortunately, when my generation is gone, that kind of resistance will be gone as well.
HelixEndeavor 5y ago
Are you trying to suggest that questioning authority figures is a flaw?
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  Anything taken to excess is a flaw. parent comment said "pathologically question", do not deliberately misinterpret.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    But nobody is "pathologically questioning" anything around vaccines, regardless of what some people may wish to believe. The questions are all very much relevant, on point and - given the untrustworthy nature of public health authorities up to this point - necessary to ask.

waterglassFull 5y ago

I was in Portugal last week and was surprised by how safe it felt. Everyone still wears masks indoors and in built up areas, sanitiser was available everywhere, people checked our vaccination status when sitting indoors. They're not major points but it definitely felt like people went out of their way to be conscious of others and the virus which is different to how I feel people in the UK treat the virus now (eg mask usage on the tube is virtually non existent). Most of this is largely anecdotal on my part but I feel countries that continue to do a little now will get long term benefits (eg mandatory mask use in public transport)

Proven 5y ago
> I was in Portugal last week and was surprised by how safe it felt. That may be because you didn't know how many of those around you got their 2nd shot before last spring, and that masks don't significantly help. But it's important how you "feel", I get that. "Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine antibodies gone by 7 months for many" - https://news.trust.org/item/20211001194329-xkwip https://news.trust.org/item/20211001194329-xkwip You may sometime want to consider the cost of government policies that has to be borne by other, unwilling participants in those schemes.
- smorgusofborg 5y ago
  It may be that they feel safe because they are about as safe as before COVID existed. When I have examined the data of countries compared to their vaccination rate the substantially lower death rate has been very clear. Israel's quick Pfizer roll out had additional break through cases, but continued spread primarily cost non-vaccinated lives. For the rest of us we have a different flu season now.
HelixEndeavor 5y ago
>how safe it felt. You mean how authoritarian it felt. I can't believe people's brains have devolved over the past 18 months to the point that seeing a society live in constant fear and have to present papers gestapo-style to participate in society is perceived as "wow I feel safe here". You'd have loved to live under fascism, because of how "safe" you would feel under your extreme government authority.

mdp2021 5y ago

For those who could not immediately interpret the number in the title (before reading the article): the vaccinated in Portugal are 88% of the total population, and 98% of those eligible (principally owing to age).

traveler01 5y ago

And somehow we didn’t got our freedom back.