5 ms·

I don't understand why Microsoft's developer products (like VS Code and Github) are really great, but their consumer products just suck.

by 65 5y ago

Yuioup 5y ago
Microsoft bought GitHub. It was already tremendously successful.
- flyinglizard 5y ago
  It keeps prospering under them. Imagine Oracle buying it or something like that.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    “Oracle GitHub is being renamed to Oracle JavaZone(TM) to harmonise Oracle’s developer story under the Java(TM) brand.”
    - skeeter2020 5y ago
      "Your JavaZone(tm) account will remain free for individual, non-profit use; all other account owners will be contacted but not until some future date after we trick you into visiting the site and demand punative licensing fees under threat of legal action"
      - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
        "By uploading computer program code to Oracle's servers, you agree to grant Oracle an unlimited, irrevocable, transferrable license to..."
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    Oracle bought Java and Java is pretty good under its patronage. Better than Sun, at least in last years. Oracle provides RHEL build and it's pretty good. No CentOS drama, it's free and just works. I think that Oracle can execute well.
    - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
      How can you completely dismiss the JDK and licensing issues that was started by Oracle?
    - skeeter2020 5y ago
      You obviously didn't get scooped up in their JDK dragnet. It was essentially a ransomeware demand that cost our company mid-five figures annually.
eli 5y ago
“Developers developers developers!” was intended to be an actual strategy
linguae 5y ago
Developers have a wide range of alternatives to Microsoft products, so Microsoft must compete on the merits of its products. If I don't like SQL Server, I could choose between Oracle, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and many other RDBMSes. However, non-developers, particularly those using desktop operating systems, have limited alternatives to the Windows ecosystem. Applications that are exclusive to Windows are still a major reason why many people are still using Windows, though thanks to the Web and mobile computing this is less of an issue than it was 15 years ago. There is also still the fact that most retail PCs ship with Windows by default; options for purchasing PCs with Linux are still rather limited, though once again this situation has improved greatly in the past 15 years. Sure, there's the Mac as an alternative to Windows, but Apple does not compete in certain use cases and price points, whereas the Windows/PC ecosystem covers most use cases at a wide variety of price points. When you're the 800-pound gorilla, you don't have to worry as much about the other animals in the ecosystem. I remember the days of Internet Explorer 6 and how that browser was allowed to stagnate, giving time for Mozilla Firefox to rise out of the ashes of Netscape Navigator and offer an alternative so compelling that it forced Microsoft to compete again. I feel this way of thinking may also explain Microsoft's approach to controversial features such as telemetry and UI changes; where will users migrate to? Migrating to the Mac or Linux requires tradeoffs that a wide amount of users have decided through their actions are not worth migrating away from Windows despite some of Windows' problems.
remir 5y ago
Because Microsoft is a platform company.
liketochill 5y ago
Developers are less likely to put up with crap because they will go and program their own competing product that is better
spixy 5y ago
I was thinking about this before and only conclusion I came is that all of recent great MS software is open-sourced (VScode, .NET core, TypeScript, new Terminal app, PowerToys...) github is still developed by Github Inc.

I don't understand why Microsoft's developer products (like VS Code and Github) are really great, but their consumer products just suck.

by 65 5y ago

I don't understand why Microsoft's developer products (like VS Code and Github) are really great, but their consumer products just suck.

Yuioup 5y ago

Microsoft bought GitHub. It was already tremendously successful.

flyinglizard 5y ago
It keeps prospering under them. Imagine Oracle buying it or something like that.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  “Oracle GitHub is being renamed to Oracle JavaZone(TM) to harmonise Oracle’s developer story under the Java(TM) brand.”
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    "Your JavaZone(tm) account will remain free for individual, non-profit use; all other account owners will be contacted but not until some future date after we trick you into visiting the site and demand punative licensing fees under threat of legal action"
    - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
      "By uploading computer program code to Oracle's servers, you agree to grant Oracle an unlimited, irrevocable, transferrable license to..."
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  Oracle bought Java and Java is pretty good under its patronage. Better than Sun, at least in last years. Oracle provides RHEL build and it's pretty good. No CentOS drama, it's free and just works. I think that Oracle can execute well.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    How can you completely dismiss the JDK and licensing issues that was started by Oracle?
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    You obviously didn't get scooped up in their JDK dragnet. It was essentially a ransomeware demand that cost our company mid-five figures annually.

eli 5y ago

“Developers developers developers!” was intended to be an actual strategy

linguae 5y ago

Developers have a wide range of alternatives to Microsoft products, so Microsoft must compete on the merits of its products. If I don't like SQL Server, I could choose between Oracle, MySQL, PostgreSQL, and many other RDBMSes. However, non-developers, particularly those using desktop operating systems, have limited alternatives to the Windows ecosystem. Applications that are exclusive to Windows are still a major reason why many people are still using Windows, though thanks to the Web and mobile computing this is less of an issue than it was 15 years ago. There is also still the fact that most retail PCs ship with Windows by default; options for purchasing PCs with Linux are still rather limited, though once again this situation has improved greatly in the past 15 years. Sure, there's the Mac as an alternative to Windows, but Apple does not compete in certain use cases and price points, whereas the Windows/PC ecosystem covers most use cases at a wide variety of price points. When you're the 800-pound gorilla, you don't have to worry as much about the other animals in the ecosystem. I remember the days of Internet Explorer 6 and how that browser was allowed to stagnate, giving time for Mozilla Firefox to rise out of the ashes of Netscape Navigator and offer an alternative so compelling that it forced Microsoft to compete again. I feel this way of thinking may also explain Microsoft's approach to controversial features such as telemetry and UI changes; where will users migrate to? Migrating to the Mac or Linux requires tradeoffs that a wide amount of users have decided through their actions are not worth migrating away from Windows despite some of Windows' problems.

remir 5y ago

Because Microsoft is a platform company.

liketochill 5y ago

Developers are less likely to put up with crap because they will go and program their own competing product that is better

spixy 5y ago

I was thinking about this before and only conclusion I came is that all of recent great MS software is open-sourced (VScode, .NET core, TypeScript, new Terminal app, PowerToys...) github is still developed by Github Inc.