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> However, no previous generation has had the juggernuat that is... Every single generation for all of time has said this.

dylan604 5y ago
they have said this, but please, provide an example of prior generation's FB level juggernaut of manipulation
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  Every generation thought their next generation's innovation was a juggernaut of manipulation. People thought rock and roll was the end of the world. https://www.usi.edu/news/releases/2017/02/rock-n-roll-and-moral-panics-part-one-1950s-and-1960s/ https://www.usi.edu/news/releases/2017/02/rock-n-roll-and-mo...
  - simonh 5y ago
    It was the end of the world, the pre-rock & roll cultural landscape doesn't exist anymore. I mean sure, the music was just one manifestation of the cultural shifts through the late 60s and 70s, but those people complaining about it were broadly right in that it was a real threat to their way of life, if wrong about their most dire and hyperbolic predictions of the consequences.
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      That sounds like admitting Instagram is just a new culture that's different to yours, rather than an actual problem then. Personally I think there's tons that's very positive about Instagram, but even if I didn't, it's not for me to dictate how the next generation chooses to communicate and enjoy themselves.
      - simonh 5y ago
        I'm not 'admitting' anything, just making an observation. Cultural changes can be positive or negative, or a mix of both, or neither. I do sympathise with the libertarian take on this, if people like and enjoy Instagram that's up to them, but these social media platforms are not neutral channels. They tailor their feeds individually, to users who have limited control of their feed. The platform is in control and they manipulate the feed to serve their own interests. I'm not going to say therefore we should do this or that thing, I don't know what the right thing is to do. Would you accept that in principle the level of control platforms have over their feeds, and the incentives they have to do so, potentially opens them up to some level of responsibility for the consequences?
  - dylan604 5y ago
    But we still have music that is being considered "the downfall of humanity" PLUS the shenannigans of FB as the cheery on top
  - tw04 5y ago
    How many teenagers committed suicide because of rock and roll? The issue isn't a changing of culture, it's an issue of mental health. Previous generations "looked down" on things like music because it was a cultural phenomenon they didn't understand or care for. I don't recall any previous generation that was facing massive mental health issues as a result of their cultural changes. I still think some of the new music being produced is garbage and some is good. I think it's hilarious to see 20-somtehing girls wearing baggy clothing that looks like it's straight out of the early 90s. None of those things have me concerned for their mental well-being. Sanity perhaps*. *joking
    - chrisseaton 5y ago
      People thought the Beatles' music was making women mentally ill. It's the same record on repeat.
      - GongOfFour 5y ago
        You aren't even engaging with the ideas in this thread. Do you think everything is hunky dory with the kids today?
        chrisseaton 5y ago
        ‘The kids’ seem better informed, more self-aware, more socially conscious, more creative, than ever. Young people I meet today always amaze me with what they know and think and are trying to achieve. Much better than I was at their age!
GongOfFour 5y ago
Yeah and each successive generation since the introduction of mass media has become more deranged.
- anonymoushn 5y ago
  I'm not sure, I haven't seen that many millennials advocating for mandatory setbacks and parking spaces at city planning meetings
  - cutemonster 5y ago
    @GongOfFour it's not about kids getting deranged. It's about getting damaged self esteem and feelings of worthlessness That's a different dimension
rubyn00bie 5y ago
No generation ever has had this, full-stop. The only thing that comes close is cigarettes and they were fucking awful for people. A 24/7 lie machine producing and creating lies around them with the people they know as the stars of the lies. It's a constant bombardment of imagery using people they know this has never been seen before because it has literally been impossible. There is no walking away or shutting it off, it happens outside of school and inside school. I think your eagerness to dismiss this as a non-threat is a luxury of your age, privilege, and your likely enjoyment of the platform. I find it truly incredible you think other generations have experienced this... because it's quite plain none have.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
  > No generation ever has had this, full-stop This is a totally different statement. Every generation said the kids are being corrupted. It may be the case that this time the kids really are being corrupted. The whole point of the thread is that armchair psychology says the same thing it always does: the kids are being corrupted. Actual research says: the kids are being corrupted and that IG is different. The point is that we need the research.
  - cutemonster 5y ago
    This is not kids being corrupted. That's the wrong comparison. It's their self esteem that can get damaged. Computer gaming addiction, and worrying about likes on FB and elsewhere, and feeling worthless, are in a different dimension than "corrupted clothes" and music. It's more comparable to getting bullied maybe, than music and fashion.

dylan604 5y ago

they have said this, but please, provide an example of prior generation's FB level juggernaut of manipulation

chrisseaton 5y ago
Every generation thought their next generation's innovation was a juggernaut of manipulation. People thought rock and roll was the end of the world. https://www.usi.edu/news/releases/2017/02/rock-n-roll-and-moral-panics-part-one-1950s-and-1960s/ https://www.usi.edu/news/releases/2017/02/rock-n-roll-and-mo...
- simonh 5y ago
  It was the end of the world, the pre-rock & roll cultural landscape doesn't exist anymore. I mean sure, the music was just one manifestation of the cultural shifts through the late 60s and 70s, but those people complaining about it were broadly right in that it was a real threat to their way of life, if wrong about their most dire and hyperbolic predictions of the consequences.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    That sounds like admitting Instagram is just a new culture that's different to yours, rather than an actual problem then. Personally I think there's tons that's very positive about Instagram, but even if I didn't, it's not for me to dictate how the next generation chooses to communicate and enjoy themselves.
    - simonh 5y ago
      I'm not 'admitting' anything, just making an observation. Cultural changes can be positive or negative, or a mix of both, or neither. I do sympathise with the libertarian take on this, if people like and enjoy Instagram that's up to them, but these social media platforms are not neutral channels. They tailor their feeds individually, to users who have limited control of their feed. The platform is in control and they manipulate the feed to serve their own interests. I'm not going to say therefore we should do this or that thing, I don't know what the right thing is to do. Would you accept that in principle the level of control platforms have over their feeds, and the incentives they have to do so, potentially opens them up to some level of responsibility for the consequences?
- dylan604 5y ago
  But we still have music that is being considered "the downfall of humanity" PLUS the shenannigans of FB as the cheery on top
- tw04 5y ago
  How many teenagers committed suicide because of rock and roll? The issue isn't a changing of culture, it's an issue of mental health. Previous generations "looked down" on things like music because it was a cultural phenomenon they didn't understand or care for. I don't recall any previous generation that was facing massive mental health issues as a result of their cultural changes. I still think some of the new music being produced is garbage and some is good. I think it's hilarious to see 20-somtehing girls wearing baggy clothing that looks like it's straight out of the early 90s. None of those things have me concerned for their mental well-being. Sanity perhaps*. *joking
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    People thought the Beatles' music was making women mentally ill. It's the same record on repeat.
    - GongOfFour 5y ago
      You aren't even engaging with the ideas in this thread. Do you think everything is hunky dory with the kids today?
      - chrisseaton 5y ago
        ‘The kids’ seem better informed, more self-aware, more socially conscious, more creative, than ever. Young people I meet today always amaze me with what they know and think and are trying to achieve. Much better than I was at their age!

GongOfFour 5y ago

Yeah and each successive generation since the introduction of mass media has become more deranged.

anonymoushn 5y ago
I'm not sure, I haven't seen that many millennials advocating for mandatory setbacks and parking spaces at city planning meetings
- cutemonster 5y ago
  @GongOfFour it's not about kids getting deranged. It's about getting damaged self esteem and feelings of worthlessness That's a different dimension

rubyn00bie 5y ago

No generation ever has had this, full-stop. The only thing that comes close is cigarettes and they were fucking awful for people. A 24/7 lie machine producing and creating lies around them with the people they know as the stars of the lies. It's a constant bombardment of imagery using people they know this has never been seen before because it has literally been impossible. There is no walking away or shutting it off, it happens outside of school and inside school. I think your eagerness to dismiss this as a non-threat is a luxury of your age, privilege, and your likely enjoyment of the platform. I find it truly incredible you think other generations have experienced this... because it's quite plain none have.

6gvONxR4sf7o 5y ago
> No generation ever has had this, full-stop This is a totally different statement. Every generation said the kids are being corrupted. It may be the case that this time the kids really are being corrupted. The whole point of the thread is that armchair psychology says the same thing it always does: the kids are being corrupted. Actual research says: the kids are being corrupted and that IG is different. The point is that we need the research.
- cutemonster 5y ago
  This is not kids being corrupted. That's the wrong comparison. It's their self esteem that can get damaged. Computer gaming addiction, and worrying about likes on FB and elsewhere, and feeling worthless, are in a different dimension than "corrupted clothes" and music. It's more comparable to getting bullied maybe, than music and fashion.