4 ms·

The title is not good--lots of meds are betting than morphine...that's why we have all the other opioids: hydromorphone, fentanyl, remifentinil, sufentinil, oxy

The title is not good--lots of meds are betting than morphine...that's why we have all the other opioids: hydromorphone, fentanyl, remifentinil, sufentinil, oxycododone, etc. If you look at the Nature abstract linked from the news article, all they claim there is that the analgesic effects can be, "as strong as morphine." This also a protein which is inherently more expensive and difficult to turn into a drug compared with a small molecule.

rich_sasha 5y ago
For a popular magazine that seems fine... analgesic as strong as morphine + fewer side effects = better overall ... no?
- mrestko 5y ago
  It's hard to know what the side effects are since it hasn't been tested in humans and is not in a form where it would be a useful drug. We've had plently of promising drugs turn out to have unexpected and sometimes devestating side effects when tested in humans.
- trutannus 5y ago
  It's fine, morphine is used as a 'standard' for opiate and other pain killer efficacy. So often that the term 'morphine equivalency' exists in medical documents.
Symbiote 5y ago
Also diamorphine (heroine), which has several advantages over morphine and is used medically outside the USA.
- samhw 5y ago
  Yup, it's used widely in end-of-life care here in the UK (I remember my mum once saying to me, when we were discussing euthanasia, that there's no doctor in the country who hasn't 'accidentally' given a little too much diamorphine to someone who was on the verge of death and in pain). It's useful, but I imagine it's tainted in the US by the association with street heroin - somewhat curiously, since fentanyl apparently hasn't been tainted by its recreational associations.
  - stordoff 5y ago
    I've no idea how often it is done with the intent to end life, but doctors are legally allowed to give doses of medication that may hasten death, providing their intention is only to relieve pain and suffering - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Adams_(1957) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Adams_(1957) It can be argued[1] that only doses that are virtually certain to cause death lead to liability for the death, so no doubt there is some overlap between doses given to relieve pain and those that quicken death. Diamorphine is also sometimes used for labour pain.[2] [1] https://www.uhs.nhs.uk/HealthProfessionals/Clinical-law-updates/Doctrineofdoubleeffect.aspx https://www.uhs.nhs.uk/HealthProfessionals/Clinical-law-upda... [2] https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and-birth/what-happens/pain-relief-in-labour/ https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and-birth/what-happens/p...
    - samhw 5y ago
      Indeed, you're referring to the doctrine of double effect (which the linked Wikipedia article on R v Adams mentions). That said, I don't think "[only] doses that are virtually certain to cause death lead to liability for the death" is correct. You had it right the first time: the relevant fact is not whether it's likely or even certain to cause death, but rather whether causing death is the primary intention. (I'm not a lawyer, though, I'm just speaking on the basis of my knowledge as a lay person.)
goldenkey 5y ago
Those drugs aren't better, in my experience, as a chronic pain patient. Morphine is way less addictive, longer lasting, with fewer side effects. Not to mention, it's natural, one of the main alkaloids from poppy. Now, I'm not a dolt who thinks natural is better. However, most synthetics are strictly worse from a therapeutic standpoint. This view is based on my experience with them and from my discussions with other patients. From what I understand, the synthetics are pushed on patients for incentives. I had to pretty much demand morphine instead of oxy. Thanks Sackler family! Morphine XR (MSCont) is also pushed instead of normal morphine, again, I think for similar reasons. Although on the surface, it might seem like an XR would be helpful. Instead it just causes more constipation and doesn't give a great absorption profile. Morphine IR 30mgs taken throughout the day pretty much vaniquished my pain. These days though, I use Kratom, Mitragyna Speciosa. It's as effective as morphine with less side effects. I also try to work out every day. Having strong muscles in the painful areas seems to help with the pain, either due to increased blood flow or perhaps for other reasons. Nucynta (Tapentadol) was the most effective synthetic opioid I ever used but without insurance it cost me $3000 a bottle. Kratom is cheap as dirt even without insurance. $70-80 buys 1 kilo / 2.5 pounds of the ground up leaf. I have enough kratom in my cabinets to last a covid apocalypse. You can get lab tested Kratom that is cGMP certified these days. I have nothing to gain by providing this information, just happy I found a pain reliever that is sustainable and doesn't require talking to a doctor playing a drug pusher every month. Lots of people have had bad experiences with kratom giving them headaches/nausea. This is largely due to poor quality kratom from head-shops and gas stations or from consuming excessive doses. Never buy Kratom that isn't lab tested with GC/MS. And don't take too much of any opioid unless you want motion sickness.
- yung_steezy 5y ago
  I've read that that stuff is bad for your liver. Worth keeping an eye out for signs of jaundice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa#Liver_toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa#Liver_toxic...
  - goldenkey 5y ago
    Thank you. Most of that, like plant protein powders, is due to heavy metals in the soil the plant is grown in, or adulterants. I've been using Kratom for over 5 years with no elevated liver enzymes. It's actually made me healthier since it, like other dark green leafy vegetables, has many micronutrients and minerals. NEVER buy kratom from a gas station or head-shop. That's likely where most of incidents stem from.

rich_sasha 5y ago

For a popular magazine that seems fine... analgesic as strong as morphine + fewer side effects = better overall ... no?

mrestko 5y ago
It's hard to know what the side effects are since it hasn't been tested in humans and is not in a form where it would be a useful drug. We've had plently of promising drugs turn out to have unexpected and sometimes devestating side effects when tested in humans.
trutannus 5y ago
It's fine, morphine is used as a 'standard' for opiate and other pain killer efficacy. So often that the term 'morphine equivalency' exists in medical documents.

Symbiote 5y ago

Also diamorphine (heroine), which has several advantages over morphine and is used medically outside the USA.

samhw 5y ago
Yup, it's used widely in end-of-life care here in the UK (I remember my mum once saying to me, when we were discussing euthanasia, that there's no doctor in the country who hasn't 'accidentally' given a little too much diamorphine to someone who was on the verge of death and in pain). It's useful, but I imagine it's tainted in the US by the association with street heroin - somewhat curiously, since fentanyl apparently hasn't been tainted by its recreational associations.
- stordoff 5y ago
  I've no idea how often it is done with the intent to end life, but doctors are legally allowed to give doses of medication that may hasten death, providing their intention is only to relieve pain and suffering - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Adams_(1957) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Adams_(1957) It can be argued[1] that only doses that are virtually certain to cause death lead to liability for the death, so no doubt there is some overlap between doses given to relieve pain and those that quicken death. Diamorphine is also sometimes used for labour pain.[2] [1] https://www.uhs.nhs.uk/HealthProfessionals/Clinical-law-updates/Doctrineofdoubleeffect.aspx https://www.uhs.nhs.uk/HealthProfessionals/Clinical-law-upda... [2] https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and-birth/what-happens/pain-relief-in-labour/ https://www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/labour-and-birth/what-happens/p...
  - samhw 5y ago
    Indeed, you're referring to the doctrine of double effect (which the linked Wikipedia article on R v Adams mentions). That said, I don't think "[only] doses that are virtually certain to cause death lead to liability for the death" is correct. You had it right the first time: the relevant fact is not whether it's likely or even certain to cause death, but rather whether causing death is the primary intention. (I'm not a lawyer, though, I'm just speaking on the basis of my knowledge as a lay person.)

goldenkey 5y ago

Those drugs aren't better, in my experience, as a chronic pain patient. Morphine is way less addictive, longer lasting, with fewer side effects. Not to mention, it's natural, one of the main alkaloids from poppy. Now, I'm not a dolt who thinks natural is better. However, most synthetics are strictly worse from a therapeutic standpoint. This view is based on my experience with them and from my discussions with other patients. From what I understand, the synthetics are pushed on patients for incentives. I had to pretty much demand morphine instead of oxy. Thanks Sackler family! Morphine XR (MSCont) is also pushed instead of normal morphine, again, I think for similar reasons. Although on the surface, it might seem like an XR would be helpful. Instead it just causes more constipation and doesn't give a great absorption profile. Morphine IR 30mgs taken throughout the day pretty much vaniquished my pain. These days though, I use Kratom, Mitragyna Speciosa. It's as effective as morphine with less side effects. I also try to work out every day. Having strong muscles in the painful areas seems to help with the pain, either due to increased blood flow or perhaps for other reasons. Nucynta (Tapentadol) was the most effective synthetic opioid I ever used but without insurance it cost me $3000 a bottle. Kratom is cheap as dirt even without insurance. $70-80 buys 1 kilo / 2.5 pounds of the ground up leaf. I have enough kratom in my cabinets to last a covid apocalypse. You can get lab tested Kratom that is cGMP certified these days. I have nothing to gain by providing this information, just happy I found a pain reliever that is sustainable and doesn't require talking to a doctor playing a drug pusher every month. Lots of people have had bad experiences with kratom giving them headaches/nausea. This is largely due to poor quality kratom from head-shops and gas stations or from consuming excessive doses. Never buy Kratom that isn't lab tested with GC/MS. And don't take too much of any opioid unless you want motion sickness.

yung_steezy 5y ago
I've read that that stuff is bad for your liver. Worth keeping an eye out for signs of jaundice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa#Liver_toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragyna_speciosa#Liver_toxic...
- goldenkey 5y ago
  Thank you. Most of that, like plant protein powders, is due to heavy metals in the soil the plant is grown in, or adulterants. I've been using Kratom for over 5 years with no elevated liver enzymes. It's actually made me healthier since it, like other dark green leafy vegetables, has many micronutrients and minerals. NEVER buy kratom from a gas station or head-shop. That's likely where most of incidents stem from.