4 ms·

There is obviously a solution, which is Bitcoin. It'll end this madness that has destroyed societies from the beginning of time.

by Geee 5y ago

matheusmoreira 5y ago
Cryptocurrency? Perhaps. Technologically, bitcoin is a failure and not a solution to anything. Monero is a much better project. Also, it's perfectly possible to inflate bitcoin despite its fixed supply. It's possible to inflate any currency. Implement fractional reserve banking on top of it. New coins will be created through loans, inflating the currencies.
- Geee 5y ago
  Why do you say that? Do you think that Bitcoin is too easy to stop for governments? Bitcoin is already used in lots of countries which suffer from inflation. It doesn't seem to be a failure. In El Salvador, there are more people with a bitcoin wallet than people with a bank account. More than 30% of people in Nigeria have used bitcoin. It's also popular in Venezuela. FRB is not a problem, because bitcoin can and should be owned non-custodially. Paper bitcoins created by a bank wouldn't be compatible with actual bitcoins, and wouldn't expand its supply.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    > Why do you say that? Because its technology is obsolete. Monero is everything bitcoin set out to be and more. > Do you think that Bitcoin is too easy to stop for governments? Absolutely. The public blockchain is actually more transparent than the banking system. To stop bitcoin transactions they don't even need to attack nodes or whatever. Bitcoins aren't fungible. Governments can just remove them from circulation at any time by making it illegal to accept them. Exchanges already refuse tainted coins. Some even refuse to deal with private wallets at all. > Bitcoin is already used in lots of countries which suffer from inflation. I don't disagree with this. It seems to work well as protection against inflation. Got to the point some governments got pissed about it because nobody was using their worthless currencies anymore and that took away their power to set monetary policy. > FRB is not a problem, because bitcoin can and should be owned non-custodially. Very few people actually do this. Huge fees, inherent risks. Most people keep their coins in exchanges. They're the new banks. > Paper bitcoins created by a bank wouldn't be compatible with actual bitcoins, and wouldn't expand its supply. There are no paper bitcoins. It's already happening at the exchanges. The coins sitting in people's accounts are undoubtedly being loaned out. Users even receive interest.
    - Geee 5y ago
      Money has strong network effects, so it's not possible for Monero to win even if it was marginally better. It's a game of winner takes all. I agree that lack of privacy can be a threat to decentralization and censorship resistance. However, Lightning Network makes bitcoin more fungible and private, so I'm not worried about that. Goverments, especially in poor countries, are starting to advocate for Bitcoin, so it seems that 'government banning' is not an actual threat. For some governments it is, but people can move out. They couldn't use Monero either if it's illegal to accept.
      - matheusmoreira 5y ago
        > Money has strong network effects, so it's not possible for Monero to win even if it was marginally better. It's a game of winner takes all. Yeah and it sucks. I hate how popular bitcoin is despite being the worst cryptocurrency in existence. Meanwhile, monero can actually be used as private digital cash right now but nobody knows about it. > However, Lightning Network makes bitcoin more fungible and private, so I'm not worried about that. It also makes it less decentralized. What's the point of the blockchain if you need this high level stuff?
  - imtringued 5y ago
    >Paper bitcoins created by a bank wouldn't be compatible with actual bitcoins, and wouldn't expand its supply. Bank dollars (your account balance) aren't compatible with coin machines and yet we still use them as if they are the same thing.
    - Geee 5y ago
      That's because we don't have anything better currently. With bitcoin it's possible to pay without custodians, and people can easily choose not to accept fake bitcoin.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
tim333 5y ago
The more obvious solution is a sanely run conventional currency like the Euro, SFR, USD etc. Bitcoin would be fairly rubbish for everyday transactions like paying wages and taking our a mortgage to buy a house. Aside from transaction costs, when bitcoin doubled, companies wouldn't be able to afford their wage bill and homeowners their mortgages.
- berberous 5y ago
  The problem is a sanely run conventional currency is sanely run until it's not. For EUR, USD, etc., that could be a very long time, but at some point, they may face the same structural forces that causes other currencies to overly inflate, e.g., economic conditions change, political winds change, and suddenly you have elected leaders making disastrous choices. Your solution is akin to saying that dictatorship is the best form of government, just make sure the dictator is a good and competent person! This is true, but ignores the precise issue, which is that you can never actually assure the critical qualifier. By contrast, BTC, with an algorithmically determined monetary policy, does actually solve the issue. And the other issues that you raise, i.e. that a highly volatile asset is a poor unit of account, are not actually issues -- you can simply transact in USD (or a stablecoin) for most day to day matters, while having the ability to always revert to BTC or other assets as an uninflatable store of wealth when desired.

There is obviously a solution, which is Bitcoin. It'll end this madness that has destroyed societies from the beginning of time.

by Geee 5y ago

There is obviously a solution, which is Bitcoin. It'll end this madness that has destroyed societies from the beginning of time.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

Cryptocurrency? Perhaps. Technologically, bitcoin is a failure and not a solution to anything. Monero is a much better project. Also, it's perfectly possible to inflate bitcoin despite its fixed supply. It's possible to inflate any currency. Implement fractional reserve banking on top of it. New coins will be created through loans, inflating the currencies.

Geee 5y ago
Why do you say that? Do you think that Bitcoin is too easy to stop for governments? Bitcoin is already used in lots of countries which suffer from inflation. It doesn't seem to be a failure. In El Salvador, there are more people with a bitcoin wallet than people with a bank account. More than 30% of people in Nigeria have used bitcoin. It's also popular in Venezuela. FRB is not a problem, because bitcoin can and should be owned non-custodially. Paper bitcoins created by a bank wouldn't be compatible with actual bitcoins, and wouldn't expand its supply.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  > Why do you say that? Because its technology is obsolete. Monero is everything bitcoin set out to be and more. > Do you think that Bitcoin is too easy to stop for governments? Absolutely. The public blockchain is actually more transparent than the banking system. To stop bitcoin transactions they don't even need to attack nodes or whatever. Bitcoins aren't fungible. Governments can just remove them from circulation at any time by making it illegal to accept them. Exchanges already refuse tainted coins. Some even refuse to deal with private wallets at all. > Bitcoin is already used in lots of countries which suffer from inflation. I don't disagree with this. It seems to work well as protection against inflation. Got to the point some governments got pissed about it because nobody was using their worthless currencies anymore and that took away their power to set monetary policy. > FRB is not a problem, because bitcoin can and should be owned non-custodially. Very few people actually do this. Huge fees, inherent risks. Most people keep their coins in exchanges. They're the new banks. > Paper bitcoins created by a bank wouldn't be compatible with actual bitcoins, and wouldn't expand its supply. There are no paper bitcoins. It's already happening at the exchanges. The coins sitting in people's accounts are undoubtedly being loaned out. Users even receive interest.
  - Geee 5y ago
    Money has strong network effects, so it's not possible for Monero to win even if it was marginally better. It's a game of winner takes all. I agree that lack of privacy can be a threat to decentralization and censorship resistance. However, Lightning Network makes bitcoin more fungible and private, so I'm not worried about that. Goverments, especially in poor countries, are starting to advocate for Bitcoin, so it seems that 'government banning' is not an actual threat. For some governments it is, but people can move out. They couldn't use Monero either if it's illegal to accept.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      > Money has strong network effects, so it's not possible for Monero to win even if it was marginally better. It's a game of winner takes all. Yeah and it sucks. I hate how popular bitcoin is despite being the worst cryptocurrency in existence. Meanwhile, monero can actually be used as private digital cash right now but nobody knows about it. > However, Lightning Network makes bitcoin more fungible and private, so I'm not worried about that. It also makes it less decentralized. What's the point of the blockchain if you need this high level stuff?
- imtringued 5y ago
  >Paper bitcoins created by a bank wouldn't be compatible with actual bitcoins, and wouldn't expand its supply. Bank dollars (your account balance) aren't compatible with coin machines and yet we still use them as if they are the same thing.
  - Geee 5y ago
    That's because we don't have anything better currently. With bitcoin it's possible to pay without custodians, and people can easily choose not to accept fake bitcoin.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

tim333 5y ago

The more obvious solution is a sanely run conventional currency like the Euro, SFR, USD etc. Bitcoin would be fairly rubbish for everyday transactions like paying wages and taking our a mortgage to buy a house. Aside from transaction costs, when bitcoin doubled, companies wouldn't be able to afford their wage bill and homeowners their mortgages.

berberous 5y ago
The problem is a sanely run conventional currency is sanely run until it's not. For EUR, USD, etc., that could be a very long time, but at some point, they may face the same structural forces that causes other currencies to overly inflate, e.g., economic conditions change, political winds change, and suddenly you have elected leaders making disastrous choices. Your solution is akin to saying that dictatorship is the best form of government, just make sure the dictator is a good and competent person! This is true, but ignores the precise issue, which is that you can never actually assure the critical qualifier. By contrast, BTC, with an algorithmically determined monetary policy, does actually solve the issue. And the other issues that you raise, i.e. that a highly volatile asset is a poor unit of account, are not actually issues -- you can simply transact in USD (or a stablecoin) for most day to day matters, while having the ability to always revert to BTC or other assets as an uninflatable store of wealth when desired.