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This attitude is terrible and corrosive to your own sense of self-worth. Yeah, life isn't fair, let alone performance reviews. No matter who you are, someone

This attitude is terrible and corrosive to your own sense of self-worth. Yeah, life isn't fair, let alone performance reviews. No matter who you are, someone else has it easier, like the trust fund kid you see driving past in the Tesla, but do you think he's happy? We all have to eat, so by all means take the next job that will pay you more. But when you're at that job, whatever you are working on, take pride in it! Always do the best you can, even if you hate your boss. This is not for the benefit of the company, it's for your own mental health and integrity. Over time this builds your skills and competence, which opens more doors. Petulantly slacking off because you weren't sufficiently recognized hurts no one but yourself; the universe does not care.

khazhoux 5y ago
And yet, is he wrong? It's a plain fact that after busting your ass for a year, your promotion will in most cases be shot down during performance review for all the usual scope ("not enough scope", "I want to see more leadership", "almost there but let's consider it in a year", etc)... and yet a single day of strong interviews can get you that bump just like that.
- secondaryacct 5y ago
  Yes he's wrong: to be promoted you must be doing the next job already and the management must be terrified you leave. You can love your job and hop out sometimes. But petulantly slacking off like OP says, is not going to make you happy.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    So getting hired for 20% more salary is much easier than performing at the next level and getting a promotion? Op is not saying he’s slacking off. He’s saying it doesn’t matter what he does.
  - Sanguinaire 5y ago
    It's not about petulance, it's about motivation. I'm in a similar position to the author but acting more like you would want; I care about being good at my job and want to deliver because that is how I was raised, but there is a constant tension in me that this is the "wrong" approach since no company actually rewards loyalty or expertise, at least not nearly as much as self-promotion and being a corporate mouthpiece. Regarding promotion and being indispensable, that cuts both ways - in some roles being impossible to replace also means you are impossible to promote, since the next step up the rigidly defined corporate ladder may not have sufficient overlap with your current role.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    Yes he's wrong: to be promoted you must be doing the next job already and the management must be terrified you leave. Sure about this? This isn't even possible everywhere - doing the next job, for example, isn't generally possible for lower wage jobs. How the heck are you going to train for a shift manager position by learning the job when you literally don't have the authority access to do it? You don't. Terrified that you leave? Try that in a call center. You, no matter how good you are, will be easily replaced with another warm body or two and folks quit these jobs all the time. Are you sure petulantly slacking off won't make one happy? I mean, what if you get joy out of seeing how far you can push that button - or alternatively, don't get satisfaction from a 'job well done' like you are told that you should? Or maybe you only do well for some recognition that you aren't getting... or maybe jobs don't give you satisfaction at all. They merely give you the means to do stuff that does make you happy.
    - tharkun__ 5y ago
      The context here is software development. Depending on what field you are in, I would tend to agree with you that it might either not be possible or a bit harder. That said, even in software, you don't always 'have the authority' to do that other job. But does that matter? Example: you're the junior, new to the team. When the team does backlog maintenance, everyone just slaps some estimate onto the barely defined ticket and calls it a day. Sprints slip all the time because tickets "explode" once you actually start working on them. The team lead does nothing about it, the PO couldn't care less, he just screams at everyone when none of the tickets are done at the end of the sprint. The junior could just resign himself and play along. Or he can start asking "dumb questions" during backlog maintenance. I.e. start a proper discussion. Suggest tickets to be split etc. The bad team lead and PO might ignore this and even actively try to get back to just slapping on estimates, not actually do the splitting or say "yeah I'll do the splitting by the time we do sprint planning" and then obviously nothing ever happens. Do it yourself! Offer helping out, to give them a chance to be part of it. They might refuse or try to "pull rank". Ignore them. Split the tickets. If you can't do it before a sprint starts (e.g. cause they'll notice and try to pull rank), split them after you've started on one of those bad tickets. Split it into 3 nicely sized ones and at the end of the sprint you can show that hey, ticket 1 is finished, ticket 2 is almost done and ticket 3 isn't even started yet. We can release the functionality of ticket 1 to customers even! You've just done all of the following: Shown that you're not the junior you've been hired as but much more! Ignored the team lead's authority when it became clear that even when shown the proper way, he's not going to act Ignored the PO's authority when it became clear that even when shown the proper way, he's not going to act Let's take this to the call center: Folks quit these all the time, like you said. Even the shift leaders or managers. I don't know enough about call center operations to know what the equivalent tasks of the little story above are but I do know from experience w/ some of our guys that it's totally possible there as well. We had a really great QA that came in through the call center. Started as a regular rep, became a shift lead, moved into QA and then became a BA. He was awesome at that. Knew everything by heart or was able to quickly try it out in-product. Heck the department lead came in through the call center as well. Similar trajectory but didn't move over to the software side and stayed on the business side.
- katbyte 5y ago
  Solution is give pay bumps without promotions.
Throwaway112211 5y ago
>This attitude is terrible and corrosive to your own sense of self-worth. I would argue that tying your self-worth too closely to your career can be even more corrosive. Sometimes doing the bare minimum and saving your mental, emotional, and physical energy for your life outside your work is even more rewarding. I say this as someone who has spent time at both ends of the spectrum. I have had stretches in which my career is my only focus and times in which I honestly put in maybe half a day's worth of real effort in an average week. Which is better all depends on the specifics of your life, your job, and your personal motivations at the moment. And it is probably worth noting that my career didn't progressive any faster during those workaholic periods compared to my slacker periods. However those slacker periods were clearly better for my life outside of work.
- mettamage 5y ago
  I have experienced a different version of this. I worked a lot on my studies, mostly in studying faster and a fair bit in obtaining high grades and studying wide/broad and studying deep (I studied for 8 years). Some things I have done were claimed to be impossible feats. I have taught others how to do it, how to think about learning, even one article was written about me. But the resulting job search was so brutal that I flipped to the other end. For 18 months, I couldn’t find a job and I applied to a very broad bunch of positions and companies taking 4 hours on average to write a motivation letter and tailor my cv. The result? No response. No company cared what skills I have gained during my studies. They see courses like hardware security as non-practical and a course on multithreading as mostly theoretical. They couldn’t care less that a part of what I learned there are transferable skills. When I learned that hard work isn’t proportional to career advancement, that’s where I decided to do whatever I feel like. I have too little control over it anyway. This is a European perspective. I doubt that things would’ve gone this badly if I was American. My way of thinking seems to fit better there (though I could be wrong).
  - rewma 5y ago
    > The result? No response. No company cared what skills I have gained during my studies. They see courses like hardware security as non-practical and a course on multithreading as mostly theoretical. I wouldn't take that personally, or even as a strong indication of a problem with your hard skills. Sometimes recruiters mainly look for real-world experience because that makes a hiring a candidate easier to justify. People without work experience or a portfolio are a crapshoot. Also, resume embellishment is indeed a common problem, thus great but unverifiable CVs might raise a red flag. Furthermore, if a company is looking for someone to tighten nuts but they get a CV from a highly trained engineer, they might prefer to pass on him. After all, if he's being underemployed then he might not be planning on sticking around for long. And finally, but not less importantly, soft skills matter. Sometimes they matter far more than hard skills. A recruiter can tolerate a competent candidate that is eager to learn, but they will be less inclined to tolerate an outstanding developer who is unbearable, insufferable, or unwilling to learn from (and work with) team members. In the end it's all a crapshoot anyway. There is a lot of confirmation bias, and a lot of lottery winners offering advise on how to win lotteries, but we would do well to acknowledge that the stars need to be aligned for good things to happen, and often they aren't.
ryanlol 5y ago
> like the trust fund kid you see driving past in the Tesla, but do you think he's happy? With that horrible plastic interior? I doubt it. The guy in a mclaren or a rolls royce? Probably.
plutonorm 5y ago
Why would I consider it 'good' to take pride in my work? So I can make another dollar for the shareholders of the company? So I can bring forward the destruction of the natural world by another millisecond? Even if you hunger for physical possessions, which I don't personally, why would that incentivise you when your level performance makes no difference? Are you so much a slave that you have to search for meaning in the nobility of work? Work does not offer us purpose because there is no purpose in the operation of institutions in the modern world. Where the driving philosophical principle of an enterprise is "make as much money as possible", who among us can wring out a meaning that satisfies us spiritually? Where even our charities are corrupted by the guiding principle of more money more good - from where is the conscious worker to draw their meaning? We exist in an age of spiritual and moral vacuum and there is no guiding principle at this time that a non idiot can align themselves with while retaining some semblance of internal consistency. How is Elon Musk working magic? A big part of it, apart from not being just another idiot with an MBA, is that he is giving people an actual purpose they can get behind. A purpose that is not just something slung over a money making machine in a vague attempt to align the workers. No, a real bottom up purpose that drives the enterprise. With that kind of purpose a team can move a mountain. You have to ask yourself... If you are not trying to save the world from cooking itself, or trying to end poverty or trying to cure cancer, or trying to ensure the existence of humanity into the far future, what the bleep are you working for? Answer: You're working for the thoughtless vacuous industrial machine that is devouring both our souls and our physical world. You should be depressed because this sh* is depressing. You should be angry because this sh* should make you angry. These emotions are deep intuitive reactions, they are drivers for change, hear them and move to change the way you work.
- Sanguinaire 5y ago
  Thank you for expressing what I struggle with every day. The additional counterbalancing layer on top of this is an internal drive for justice - this is what pushes me to work for a big tech company rather than doing something which gives me more self-respect. If other people can earn 6+ figures to fuck about with computers all day and deliver nothing of true societal value, why should I be the sucker doing scientific research for a fraction of that?
- 5y ago
herbst 5y ago
For my own mental health why would I take pride in a job I hate? A job where I can't agree with my boss? Why would I care about more money when I have enough? This sounds like accepting and denying more than anything. I would wish anyone a job they are actually valued in, a job they like.
- lr4444lr 5y ago
  I think he means take pride in the quality of your work, not in whom you work for, as you seem to be inferring. I.e., don't the job harm the good in you.
wayoutthere 5y ago
I dunno, my attitude is that capitalism is all a grift anyway so I do the best I can when I’m at work, then immediately forget all about it come 5 o’clock. The grift is that “fake it till you make it” legitimately works. Lie a bit in your interviews to make it look like you have experience, then you have at least 6 months to figure it out once on the job. Rinse and repeat every few years; if you don’t stay anywhere long enough then nobody will catch on. Just make some friends along the way you can call when things get out of your league and you’ll be fine. In my experience, good relationships will cover for poor execution every time, and the reverse is not true.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> This attitude is terrible and corrosive to your own sense of self-worth. For some context: That subreddit is historically very cynical. It's more of a support group and a place to vent than an actual advice forum. A lot of people arrive on /r/cscareerquestions thinking that the only way to succeed is to spend all of your spare time doing side projects and grinding leetcode while pursuing FAANG jobs. I would sometimes try to answer questions there in between long builds but it became very demoralizing. Many of the regulars there are struggling with their careers or disgruntled with their jobs and they extrapolate to the entire tech industry. There were occasionally people putting in good comments in the sub, but it tends to get drowned out by cynical complaints. You know how internet relationship advice forums devolve into everyone telling the OP to break up or get divorced? That sub felt like the CS equivalent of a relationship forum: The advice is always to blame your employer or the industry and quit your job, ignoring any nuance in the situation.
- tayo42 5y ago
  Cscareerquestions also has the same problem all most all of reddit has, you cant express any ideas outside of what the hivemind says.
nkrisc 5y ago
I diagree, I think this person has the right idea. Corporations aren't people. They have no feelings, no loyalties, no empathy. Sure the people who work there do, but you all work for the Corporation. Exploit the corporation. Give them exactly what they pay you for an not an ounce more. Stay within the bounds of the law and your personal ethics, but extract from the Corporation just as the Corporation extracts from everything else. Don't tie your identity or self-worth to your contractual obligations to the Corporation. Use the money you extract from the Corporation to enjoy life and the things that do define you and give you your sense of self-worth. The universe does not care if you're good at your job or not. You've only got so many years until you're dead and gone, spend as little of it as possible working and as much of it doing the things as you enjoy. If working is what you enjoy, good for you, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
- nebula8804 5y ago
  I completely agree with this line of thinking as I enter my 30s. But having lived in Europe for a while and seen the dark side of this "work to live vs live to work" mentality, we have to accept that building cutting edge stuff is the result of many hours of pain and suffering and most of all sacrifice. Somebody has got to do the pain and suffering part so that everyone else can do more of the "just work up to the requirements and not an ounce more" part.
  - dbingham 5y ago
    If companies were structured as employee owned worker cooperatives, then that sacrifice would be meaningfully rewarded. As it is now, a lot of people sacrifice so a handful can walk away with the rewards created by everyone else's sacrifices.
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    Driven and intelligent people will always be pushing the boundary because they feel a calling to it. The only tragedy is they're often not justly rewarded for it. I'm in the "not an ounce more" camp, but I also don't expect a cent more than I'm owed in return. Those who do push themselves further for the benefit of humanity deserve more than I do.

khazhoux 5y ago

And yet, is he wrong? It's a plain fact that after busting your ass for a year, your promotion will in most cases be shot down during performance review for all the usual scope ("not enough scope", "I want to see more leadership", "almost there but let's consider it in a year", etc)... and yet a single day of strong interviews can get you that bump just like that.

secondaryacct 5y ago
Yes he's wrong: to be promoted you must be doing the next job already and the management must be terrified you leave. You can love your job and hop out sometimes. But petulantly slacking off like OP says, is not going to make you happy.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  So getting hired for 20% more salary is much easier than performing at the next level and getting a promotion? Op is not saying he’s slacking off. He’s saying it doesn’t matter what he does.
- Sanguinaire 5y ago
  It's not about petulance, it's about motivation. I'm in a similar position to the author but acting more like you would want; I care about being good at my job and want to deliver because that is how I was raised, but there is a constant tension in me that this is the "wrong" approach since no company actually rewards loyalty or expertise, at least not nearly as much as self-promotion and being a corporate mouthpiece. Regarding promotion and being indispensable, that cuts both ways - in some roles being impossible to replace also means you are impossible to promote, since the next step up the rigidly defined corporate ladder may not have sufficient overlap with your current role.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  Yes he's wrong: to be promoted you must be doing the next job already and the management must be terrified you leave. Sure about this? This isn't even possible everywhere - doing the next job, for example, isn't generally possible for lower wage jobs. How the heck are you going to train for a shift manager position by learning the job when you literally don't have the authority access to do it? You don't. Terrified that you leave? Try that in a call center. You, no matter how good you are, will be easily replaced with another warm body or two and folks quit these jobs all the time. Are you sure petulantly slacking off won't make one happy? I mean, what if you get joy out of seeing how far you can push that button - or alternatively, don't get satisfaction from a 'job well done' like you are told that you should? Or maybe you only do well for some recognition that you aren't getting... or maybe jobs don't give you satisfaction at all. They merely give you the means to do stuff that does make you happy.
  - tharkun__ 5y ago
    The context here is software development. Depending on what field you are in, I would tend to agree with you that it might either not be possible or a bit harder. That said, even in software, you don't always 'have the authority' to do that other job. But does that matter? Example: you're the junior, new to the team. When the team does backlog maintenance, everyone just slaps some estimate onto the barely defined ticket and calls it a day. Sprints slip all the time because tickets "explode" once you actually start working on them. The team lead does nothing about it, the PO couldn't care less, he just screams at everyone when none of the tickets are done at the end of the sprint. The junior could just resign himself and play along. Or he can start asking "dumb questions" during backlog maintenance. I.e. start a proper discussion. Suggest tickets to be split etc. The bad team lead and PO might ignore this and even actively try to get back to just slapping on estimates, not actually do the splitting or say "yeah I'll do the splitting by the time we do sprint planning" and then obviously nothing ever happens. Do it yourself! Offer helping out, to give them a chance to be part of it. They might refuse or try to "pull rank". Ignore them. Split the tickets. If you can't do it before a sprint starts (e.g. cause they'll notice and try to pull rank), split them after you've started on one of those bad tickets. Split it into 3 nicely sized ones and at the end of the sprint you can show that hey, ticket 1 is finished, ticket 2 is almost done and ticket 3 isn't even started yet. We can release the functionality of ticket 1 to customers even! You've just done all of the following: Shown that you're not the junior you've been hired as but much more! Ignored the team lead's authority when it became clear that even when shown the proper way, he's not going to act Ignored the PO's authority when it became clear that even when shown the proper way, he's not going to act Let's take this to the call center: Folks quit these all the time, like you said. Even the shift leaders or managers. I don't know enough about call center operations to know what the equivalent tasks of the little story above are but I do know from experience w/ some of our guys that it's totally possible there as well. We had a really great QA that came in through the call center. Started as a regular rep, became a shift lead, moved into QA and then became a BA. He was awesome at that. Knew everything by heart or was able to quickly try it out in-product. Heck the department lead came in through the call center as well. Similar trajectory but didn't move over to the software side and stayed on the business side.
katbyte 5y ago
Solution is give pay bumps without promotions.

Throwaway112211 5y ago

>This attitude is terrible and corrosive to your own sense of self-worth. I would argue that tying your self-worth too closely to your career can be even more corrosive. Sometimes doing the bare minimum and saving your mental, emotional, and physical energy for your life outside your work is even more rewarding. I say this as someone who has spent time at both ends of the spectrum. I have had stretches in which my career is my only focus and times in which I honestly put in maybe half a day's worth of real effort in an average week. Which is better all depends on the specifics of your life, your job, and your personal motivations at the moment. And it is probably worth noting that my career didn't progressive any faster during those workaholic periods compared to my slacker periods. However those slacker periods were clearly better for my life outside of work.

mettamage 5y ago
I have experienced a different version of this. I worked a lot on my studies, mostly in studying faster and a fair bit in obtaining high grades and studying wide/broad and studying deep (I studied for 8 years). Some things I have done were claimed to be impossible feats. I have taught others how to do it, how to think about learning, even one article was written about me. But the resulting job search was so brutal that I flipped to the other end. For 18 months, I couldn’t find a job and I applied to a very broad bunch of positions and companies taking 4 hours on average to write a motivation letter and tailor my cv. The result? No response. No company cared what skills I have gained during my studies. They see courses like hardware security as non-practical and a course on multithreading as mostly theoretical. They couldn’t care less that a part of what I learned there are transferable skills. When I learned that hard work isn’t proportional to career advancement, that’s where I decided to do whatever I feel like. I have too little control over it anyway. This is a European perspective. I doubt that things would’ve gone this badly if I was American. My way of thinking seems to fit better there (though I could be wrong).
- rewma 5y ago
  > The result? No response. No company cared what skills I have gained during my studies. They see courses like hardware security as non-practical and a course on multithreading as mostly theoretical. I wouldn't take that personally, or even as a strong indication of a problem with your hard skills. Sometimes recruiters mainly look for real-world experience because that makes a hiring a candidate easier to justify. People without work experience or a portfolio are a crapshoot. Also, resume embellishment is indeed a common problem, thus great but unverifiable CVs might raise a red flag. Furthermore, if a company is looking for someone to tighten nuts but they get a CV from a highly trained engineer, they might prefer to pass on him. After all, if he's being underemployed then he might not be planning on sticking around for long. And finally, but not less importantly, soft skills matter. Sometimes they matter far more than hard skills. A recruiter can tolerate a competent candidate that is eager to learn, but they will be less inclined to tolerate an outstanding developer who is unbearable, insufferable, or unwilling to learn from (and work with) team members. In the end it's all a crapshoot anyway. There is a lot of confirmation bias, and a lot of lottery winners offering advise on how to win lotteries, but we would do well to acknowledge that the stars need to be aligned for good things to happen, and often they aren't.

ryanlol 5y ago

> like the trust fund kid you see driving past in the Tesla, but do you think he's happy? With that horrible plastic interior? I doubt it. The guy in a mclaren or a rolls royce? Probably.

plutonorm 5y ago

Why would I consider it 'good' to take pride in my work? So I can make another dollar for the shareholders of the company? So I can bring forward the destruction of the natural world by another millisecond? Even if you hunger for physical possessions, which I don't personally, why would that incentivise you when your level performance makes no difference? Are you so much a slave that you have to search for meaning in the nobility of work? Work does not offer us purpose because there is no purpose in the operation of institutions in the modern world. Where the driving philosophical principle of an enterprise is "make as much money as possible", who among us can wring out a meaning that satisfies us spiritually? Where even our charities are corrupted by the guiding principle of more money more good - from where is the conscious worker to draw their meaning? We exist in an age of spiritual and moral vacuum and there is no guiding principle at this time that a non idiot can align themselves with while retaining some semblance of internal consistency. How is Elon Musk working magic? A big part of it, apart from not being just another idiot with an MBA, is that he is giving people an actual purpose they can get behind. A purpose that is not just something slung over a money making machine in a vague attempt to align the workers. No, a real bottom up purpose that drives the enterprise. With that kind of purpose a team can move a mountain. You have to ask yourself... If you are not trying to save the world from cooking itself, or trying to end poverty or trying to cure cancer, or trying to ensure the existence of humanity into the far future, what the bleep are you working for? Answer: You're working for the thoughtless vacuous industrial machine that is devouring both our souls and our physical world. You should be depressed because this sh* is depressing. You should be angry because this sh* should make you angry. These emotions are deep intuitive reactions, they are drivers for change, hear them and move to change the way you work.

Sanguinaire 5y ago
Thank you for expressing what I struggle with every day. The additional counterbalancing layer on top of this is an internal drive for justice - this is what pushes me to work for a big tech company rather than doing something which gives me more self-respect. If other people can earn 6+ figures to fuck about with computers all day and deliver nothing of true societal value, why should I be the sucker doing scientific research for a fraction of that?
5y ago

herbst 5y ago

For my own mental health why would I take pride in a job I hate? A job where I can't agree with my boss? Why would I care about more money when I have enough? This sounds like accepting and denying more than anything. I would wish anyone a job they are actually valued in, a job they like.

lr4444lr 5y ago
I think he means take pride in the quality of your work, not in whom you work for, as you seem to be inferring. I.e., don't the job harm the good in you.

wayoutthere 5y ago

I dunno, my attitude is that capitalism is all a grift anyway so I do the best I can when I’m at work, then immediately forget all about it come 5 o’clock. The grift is that “fake it till you make it” legitimately works. Lie a bit in your interviews to make it look like you have experience, then you have at least 6 months to figure it out once on the job. Rinse and repeat every few years; if you don’t stay anywhere long enough then nobody will catch on. Just make some friends along the way you can call when things get out of your league and you’ll be fine. In my experience, good relationships will cover for poor execution every time, and the reverse is not true.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> This attitude is terrible and corrosive to your own sense of self-worth. For some context: That subreddit is historically very cynical. It's more of a support group and a place to vent than an actual advice forum. A lot of people arrive on /r/cscareerquestions thinking that the only way to succeed is to spend all of your spare time doing side projects and grinding leetcode while pursuing FAANG jobs. I would sometimes try to answer questions there in between long builds but it became very demoralizing. Many of the regulars there are struggling with their careers or disgruntled with their jobs and they extrapolate to the entire tech industry. There were occasionally people putting in good comments in the sub, but it tends to get drowned out by cynical complaints. You know how internet relationship advice forums devolve into everyone telling the OP to break up or get divorced? That sub felt like the CS equivalent of a relationship forum: The advice is always to blame your employer or the industry and quit your job, ignoring any nuance in the situation.

tayo42 5y ago
Cscareerquestions also has the same problem all most all of reddit has, you cant express any ideas outside of what the hivemind says.

nkrisc 5y ago

I diagree, I think this person has the right idea. Corporations aren't people. They have no feelings, no loyalties, no empathy. Sure the people who work there do, but you all work for the Corporation. Exploit the corporation. Give them exactly what they pay you for an not an ounce more. Stay within the bounds of the law and your personal ethics, but extract from the Corporation just as the Corporation extracts from everything else. Don't tie your identity or self-worth to your contractual obligations to the Corporation. Use the money you extract from the Corporation to enjoy life and the things that do define you and give you your sense of self-worth. The universe does not care if you're good at your job or not. You've only got so many years until you're dead and gone, spend as little of it as possible working and as much of it doing the things as you enjoy. If working is what you enjoy, good for you, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

nebula8804 5y ago
I completely agree with this line of thinking as I enter my 30s. But having lived in Europe for a while and seen the dark side of this "work to live vs live to work" mentality, we have to accept that building cutting edge stuff is the result of many hours of pain and suffering and most of all sacrifice. Somebody has got to do the pain and suffering part so that everyone else can do more of the "just work up to the requirements and not an ounce more" part.
- dbingham 5y ago
  If companies were structured as employee owned worker cooperatives, then that sacrifice would be meaningfully rewarded. As it is now, a lot of people sacrifice so a handful can walk away with the rewards created by everyone else's sacrifices.
- nkrisc 5y ago
  Driven and intelligent people will always be pushing the boundary because they feel a calling to it. The only tragedy is they're often not justly rewarded for it. I'm in the "not an ounce more" camp, but I also don't expect a cent more than I'm owed in return. Those who do push themselves further for the benefit of humanity deserve more than I do.