4 ms·

There are some people trying to organize a general strike for October 15th. I just see mentions of it on social media, but I have yet to hear of any big unions

by goda90 5y ago

There are some people trying to organize a general strike for October 15th. I just see mentions of it on social media, but I have yet to hear of any big unions getting involved.

eigengrau5150 5y ago
You won't see the big, "respectable" unions get involved because under the Taft-Hartley Act general strikes are pretty much illegal. https://web.archive.org/web/20120501041417/http://inthesetimes.com/uprising/entry/13125/whats_a_general_strike_anyway/ https://web.archive.org/web/20120501041417/http://inthesetim... The thing is, they can't arrest everybody without turning the USA into more of a prison than it already is and setting the stage for John Carpenter's ESCAPE FROM AMERICA. October 15 is a good day for a strike, but in the USA every day is a good day for a strike. https://octoberstrike.com/ https://octoberstrike.com/
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  > https://octoberstrike.com/ https://octoberstrike.com/ Too bad they mixed political ideology in what would have been otherwise a unifying populist movement. Remember, most socialists are upper middle class and above. > Our Goals: 25% corporate tax rate (No loopholes) Free Healthcare for all 12 weeks paid paternity and maternity leave $20 minimum wage 4 day work week Stricter Environmental Regulations on Corporations (Bans on single use and micro plastics, and limited emissions) For some reasons every socialist I talk to actually think a 15-25 hours week of work is sufficient for society to function, I never really got a good explanation how productivity will increase to accommodate such a drastic drop in labor outside of theoretical predictions. Also: Corporations can move, and re-invest their profits. Such high profit taxes are usually counter-productive. Loopholes will always exist. You can't stop them from leaving. There is a reason that most western countries US barely produces anything outside of IP and petrodollar. Free Healthcare for all is a lie. Nothing is free. Positive rights lead to slavery or worker revolts and shortage. We are living this right now in Canada, nurses are tired of doing obligatory overtime. They're just quitting. Hospitals are closing, literally. The US health care system is inefficient due to litigation and regulations pushed by lobbying to maintain private monopolies. High minimum wage will just accelerate automation and the disappearance of low-skills jobs.
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    > For some reasons every socialist I talk to actually think a 15-25 hours week of work is sufficient for society to function A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. We don't have a large enough labor-force to operate at full capacity right now (I think including unemployed), we'd need more immigration for that. Reducing busywork jobs like advertising that suck in more labor in a pointless arms race will free up people for productive labor. Another hope is that a society that has everyone cared for on a fairly even basis will have less crime and so reduce the need for guard labor. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TCU https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TCU > Corporations can move, and re-invest their profits. We can take control of the actual physical plants and prevent them from escaping. Money isn't real, physical reality is. > Free Healthcare for all is a lie. Many countries have this, even poorer countries than the US. In any case, even libertarian think tanks found M4A would reduce the cost of healthcare by removing complexity from the administrative side at minimum. Pricing can be negotiated down via monopsony. > High minimum wage will just accelerate automation and the disappearance of low-skills jobs. Not if the workers control the economy. They will not want their jobs to disappear unless they are promised placement and training. If those are provided, you may see even higher levels of automation as there will be reduced resistance to it. Not many people care if a business process changes so long as it won't leave them on the street.
    - TeeMassive 5y ago
      > A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. You obviously do not have a lot of experience in manufacturing and technology. Factories can close for many valid reasons: inefficient process, lack of resources, lack of talents, consolidation with other factories, etc. These are all necessary for any kind of healthy systems. > We don't have a large enough labor-force to operate at full capacity right now (I think including unemployed), we'd need more immigration for that. Immigration is simply moving the problem to another country and is a major problem for developing countries where they people who can keep the lights on are leaving. Mass immigration also leads to lack of integration and social unrest. > Reducing busywork jobs like advertising that suck in more labor in a pointless arms race will free up people for productive labor. I'm not for useless marketing but it has a necessary function. Letting people know of potential better solutions is critical. A lot of problems are not known as problems that can be solved by those experiencing them. Also who gets to decide what is "pointless"? There are no good answer to this question, especially in a technological society. And even if marketing exists purely as a way to get an edge in market competition, removing competition itself always leads to complacency and corruption. > We can take control of the actual physical plants and prevent them from escaping. Money isn't real, physical reality is. Who is "we"? Most likely not you and me. And the idea that the plants and the workers will automatically keep working at "our" command is just pure fantasy. Organization is not tangible, yet you can't ignore them. Even if you remove the collective convention of money you will not eliminate the phenomenon of supply and demand and who gets to decide always lead to conflict, waste and corruption. And your phrasing of "prevent them from escaping" is very telling of what a dystopia that would be. > Many countries have this, even poorer countries than the US Yet Free Health care does not exist. Someone has to get paid, or be forced to stay to work by force, like is happening in Cuba. > In any case, even libertarian think tanks found M4A would reduce the cost of healthcare by removing complexity from the administrative side at minimum. If you think that a multi-trillion industry with very close relationships with those in the government would let that happen then you are very naive. The cost will be moved and renamed as the regulations, over-licensure and over-litigation will remain as the root cause of the problem. I live in a "free" health care system, it's more or less the same BS than in the States, but instead of worrying about money we worry about getting service in the first place after waiting hours or days or nothing at all. > Pricing can be negotiated down via monopsony. Keyword here is "can". I get it that you are unfamiliar with the horrors of the governmental procurement processes? Here's a hint: always taking the lowest bidder rarely leads to actual low prices. > Not if the workers control the economy. In reality only a handful of people can "control" a system. These people rarely tend to be actual workers or never have to work after they "control" others. This is a fantasy at best. > They will not want their jobs to disappear unless they are promised placement and training. If those are provided, you may see even higher levels of automation as there will be reduced resistance to it. Not everyone can "learn to code" or acquire new higher level skills. Not all automation leads to more jobs, and even if free market automation can make life dirt cheap and diminish required labor (which is kind of the case since a poor person probably has higher level of living than a king of a few centuries back).
pasquinelli 5y ago
wouldn't be the first time there's been chatter online about a general strike. it won't happen because we aren't there, not even remotely. there is no class consciousness.
- tehjoker 5y ago
  Here's hoping we're on the path though. <3 I feel so pessimistic sometimes and other times I feel like things are finally starting to go somewhere.

by goda90 5y ago

There are some people trying to organize a general strike for October 15th. I just see mentions of it on social media, but I have yet to hear of any big unions getting involved.

eigengrau5150 5y ago

You won't see the big, "respectable" unions get involved because under the Taft-Hartley Act general strikes are pretty much illegal. https://web.archive.org/web/20120501041417/http://inthesetimes.com/uprising/entry/13125/whats_a_general_strike_anyway/ https://web.archive.org/web/20120501041417/http://inthesetim... The thing is, they can't arrest everybody without turning the USA into more of a prison than it already is and setting the stage for John Carpenter's ESCAPE FROM AMERICA. October 15 is a good day for a strike, but in the USA every day is a good day for a strike. https://octoberstrike.com/ https://octoberstrike.com/

TeeMassive 5y ago
> https://octoberstrike.com/ https://octoberstrike.com/ Too bad they mixed political ideology in what would have been otherwise a unifying populist movement. Remember, most socialists are upper middle class and above. > Our Goals: 25% corporate tax rate (No loopholes) Free Healthcare for all 12 weeks paid paternity and maternity leave $20 minimum wage 4 day work week Stricter Environmental Regulations on Corporations (Bans on single use and micro plastics, and limited emissions) For some reasons every socialist I talk to actually think a 15-25 hours week of work is sufficient for society to function, I never really got a good explanation how productivity will increase to accommodate such a drastic drop in labor outside of theoretical predictions. Also: Corporations can move, and re-invest their profits. Such high profit taxes are usually counter-productive. Loopholes will always exist. You can't stop them from leaving. There is a reason that most western countries US barely produces anything outside of IP and petrodollar. Free Healthcare for all is a lie. Nothing is free. Positive rights lead to slavery or worker revolts and shortage. We are living this right now in Canada, nurses are tired of doing obligatory overtime. They're just quitting. Hospitals are closing, literally. The US health care system is inefficient due to litigation and regulations pushed by lobbying to maintain private monopolies. High minimum wage will just accelerate automation and the disappearance of low-skills jobs.
- tehjoker 5y ago
  > For some reasons every socialist I talk to actually think a 15-25 hours week of work is sufficient for society to function A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. We don't have a large enough labor-force to operate at full capacity right now (I think including unemployed), we'd need more immigration for that. Reducing busywork jobs like advertising that suck in more labor in a pointless arms race will free up people for productive labor. Another hope is that a society that has everyone cared for on a fairly even basis will have less crime and so reduce the need for guard labor. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TCU https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TCU > Corporations can move, and re-invest their profits. We can take control of the actual physical plants and prevent them from escaping. Money isn't real, physical reality is. > Free Healthcare for all is a lie. Many countries have this, even poorer countries than the US. In any case, even libertarian think tanks found M4A would reduce the cost of healthcare by removing complexity from the administrative side at minimum. Pricing can be negotiated down via monopsony. > High minimum wage will just accelerate automation and the disappearance of low-skills jobs. Not if the workers control the economy. They will not want their jobs to disappear unless they are promised placement and training. If those are provided, you may see even higher levels of automation as there will be reduced resistance to it. Not many people care if a business process changes so long as it won't leave them on the street.
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    > A good chunk of that can be improved with full employment. Capitalism also leaves a significant amount of storehouses/factories/etc unused because they're not profitable to operate. You obviously do not have a lot of experience in manufacturing and technology. Factories can close for many valid reasons: inefficient process, lack of resources, lack of talents, consolidation with other factories, etc. These are all necessary for any kind of healthy systems. > We don't have a large enough labor-force to operate at full capacity right now (I think including unemployed), we'd need more immigration for that. Immigration is simply moving the problem to another country and is a major problem for developing countries where they people who can keep the lights on are leaving. Mass immigration also leads to lack of integration and social unrest. > Reducing busywork jobs like advertising that suck in more labor in a pointless arms race will free up people for productive labor. I'm not for useless marketing but it has a necessary function. Letting people know of potential better solutions is critical. A lot of problems are not known as problems that can be solved by those experiencing them. Also who gets to decide what is "pointless"? There are no good answer to this question, especially in a technological society. And even if marketing exists purely as a way to get an edge in market competition, removing competition itself always leads to complacency and corruption. > We can take control of the actual physical plants and prevent them from escaping. Money isn't real, physical reality is. Who is "we"? Most likely not you and me. And the idea that the plants and the workers will automatically keep working at "our" command is just pure fantasy. Organization is not tangible, yet you can't ignore them. Even if you remove the collective convention of money you will not eliminate the phenomenon of supply and demand and who gets to decide always lead to conflict, waste and corruption. And your phrasing of "prevent them from escaping" is very telling of what a dystopia that would be. > Many countries have this, even poorer countries than the US Yet Free Health care does not exist. Someone has to get paid, or be forced to stay to work by force, like is happening in Cuba. > In any case, even libertarian think tanks found M4A would reduce the cost of healthcare by removing complexity from the administrative side at minimum. If you think that a multi-trillion industry with very close relationships with those in the government would let that happen then you are very naive. The cost will be moved and renamed as the regulations, over-licensure and over-litigation will remain as the root cause of the problem. I live in a "free" health care system, it's more or less the same BS than in the States, but instead of worrying about money we worry about getting service in the first place after waiting hours or days or nothing at all. > Pricing can be negotiated down via monopsony. Keyword here is "can". I get it that you are unfamiliar with the horrors of the governmental procurement processes? Here's a hint: always taking the lowest bidder rarely leads to actual low prices. > Not if the workers control the economy. In reality only a handful of people can "control" a system. These people rarely tend to be actual workers or never have to work after they "control" others. This is a fantasy at best. > They will not want their jobs to disappear unless they are promised placement and training. If those are provided, you may see even higher levels of automation as there will be reduced resistance to it. Not everyone can "learn to code" or acquire new higher level skills. Not all automation leads to more jobs, and even if free market automation can make life dirt cheap and diminish required labor (which is kind of the case since a poor person probably has higher level of living than a king of a few centuries back).

pasquinelli 5y ago

wouldn't be the first time there's been chatter online about a general strike. it won't happen because we aren't there, not even remotely. there is no class consciousness.

tehjoker 5y ago
Here's hoping we're on the path though. <3 I feel so pessimistic sometimes and other times I feel like things are finally starting to go somewhere.