5 ms·

What's so misleading about this Tweet? Is it the first bit about non-covid vaccines?

judge2020 5y ago
mRNA vaccines "don't stop transmission" isn't false, but it is misleading in that it sounds like they do nothing for transmission at all.
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  .
  - EricE 5y ago
    Doesn't fit the narrative demanded by their tribe. Thus threatened they act on emotion and not logic.
TideAd 5y ago
Probably the claim of 0.2% IFR. I don't know what the latest IFR estimates are, but it can't be that low: for example, more than 0.2% of Americans have died from Covid, and many Americans have never been infected.
- nradov 5y ago
  The CDC estimated an overall 0.6% IFR for the US. The vast majority of those deaths are in the older age groups with serious co-morbid conditions such as obesity and diabetes. So the IFR for younger age groups is significantly lower than 0.2%. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...
breezeTrowel 5y ago
Nearly everything. COVID-19 IFR seems to be more like 1% (compared to an IFR of 0.05% for polio, for example) but more infected will suffer from damage to respiratory tissues and other complications. MMR vaccines are mandatory for school children so, if you've attended school in the US, odds are you've been vaccinated against mumps, measles, and rubella. Polio has been wiped out by a massive vaccination campaign. It's no longer a threat precisely because of vaccinations. Meanwhile, the COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance and period of transmissibility, reduce disease severity in breakthrough infections, and only require boosters for those populations whose immunity wanes. The latter also applies to those infected with COVID-19. Reinfection can and does happen. Vaccines can help counteract that. The biggest benefit to vaccines is not just personal protection but also how much they work to limit spread. This is crucial in stopping the pandemic because the longer and easier COVID-19 is allowed to spread, the more likely it can mutate into a strain that's more virulent and harder to fight. We saw this with Delta.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Yup, this gets downvoted. Hacker News is apparently going full antivax now. Utterly ridiculous.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    Yep. It's really gone down hill here on these topics lately.
    - user-the-name 5y ago
      It's sad to see. Hacker News claims to believe in science, but when it comes to anything relating to this, and quite a few other things besides, that all goes out the window with blinding speed.
      - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
        It's the sad outcome of when the ideology of libertarianism runs up against a situation where collective welfare becomes a major concern. Just put your hands over your eyes and your thumbs in your ears and be "smarter" than everyone else with their annoying masks and irrational fears and panic and medicines you are too smart to take. No obligations! ... <wags finger> "We live in a society!"
        fighterpilot 5y ago
        > libertarianism runs up against a situation where collective welfare No. Vaccine mandates (to the extent that they stop transmission) can still be justified under libertarian principles. https://www.cato.org/blog/analyzing-vaccine-mandates-libertarian-perspective https://www.cato.org/blog/analyzing-vaccine-mandates-liberta...
lurtbancaster 5y ago
The person in the tweet may(assuming charitably) be conflating "Case Fatality Rates" and "Infection Fatality Rates". Here's a helpful video by potholer54 explaining the difference between the two - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAB43K2gtOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAB43K2gtOk
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  Although CFR should always be higher than IFR since the most symptom free cases go undiagnosed

judge2020 5y ago

mRNA vaccines "don't stop transmission" isn't false, but it is misleading in that it sounds like they do nothing for transmission at all.

fighterpilot 5y ago
.
- EricE 5y ago
  Doesn't fit the narrative demanded by their tribe. Thus threatened they act on emotion and not logic.

TideAd 5y ago

Probably the claim of 0.2% IFR. I don't know what the latest IFR estimates are, but it can't be that low: for example, more than 0.2% of Americans have died from Covid, and many Americans have never been infected.

nradov 5y ago
The CDC estimated an overall 0.6% IFR for the US. The vast majority of those deaths are in the older age groups with serious co-morbid conditions such as obesity and diabetes. So the IFR for younger age groups is significantly lower than 0.2%. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burd...

breezeTrowel 5y ago

Nearly everything. COVID-19 IFR seems to be more like 1% (compared to an IFR of 0.05% for polio, for example) but more infected will suffer from damage to respiratory tissues and other complications. MMR vaccines are mandatory for school children so, if you've attended school in the US, odds are you've been vaccinated against mumps, measles, and rubella. Polio has been wiped out by a massive vaccination campaign. It's no longer a threat precisely because of vaccinations. Meanwhile, the COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance and period of transmissibility, reduce disease severity in breakthrough infections, and only require boosters for those populations whose immunity wanes. The latter also applies to those infected with COVID-19. Reinfection can and does happen. Vaccines can help counteract that. The biggest benefit to vaccines is not just personal protection but also how much they work to limit spread. This is crucial in stopping the pandemic because the longer and easier COVID-19 is allowed to spread, the more likely it can mutate into a strain that's more virulent and harder to fight. We saw this with Delta.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
user-the-name 5y ago
Yup, this gets downvoted. Hacker News is apparently going full antivax now. Utterly ridiculous.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  Yep. It's really gone down hill here on these topics lately.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    It's sad to see. Hacker News claims to believe in science, but when it comes to anything relating to this, and quite a few other things besides, that all goes out the window with blinding speed.
    - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      It's the sad outcome of when the ideology of libertarianism runs up against a situation where collective welfare becomes a major concern. Just put your hands over your eyes and your thumbs in your ears and be "smarter" than everyone else with their annoying masks and irrational fears and panic and medicines you are too smart to take. No obligations! ... <wags finger> "We live in a society!"
      - fighterpilot 5y ago
        > libertarianism runs up against a situation where collective welfare No. Vaccine mandates (to the extent that they stop transmission) can still be justified under libertarian principles. https://www.cato.org/blog/analyzing-vaccine-mandates-libertarian-perspective https://www.cato.org/blog/analyzing-vaccine-mandates-liberta...

lurtbancaster 5y ago

The person in the tweet may(assuming charitably) be conflating "Case Fatality Rates" and "Infection Fatality Rates". Here's a helpful video by potholer54 explaining the difference between the two - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAB43K2gtOk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAB43K2gtOk

fighterpilot 5y ago
Although CFR should always be higher than IFR since the most symptom free cases go undiagnosed