5 ms·

As much as I don't like social media and Zuck in general, I think social media get a lot of undeserved blame. The biggest culture shock I had coming to North Am

As much as I don't like social media and Zuck in general, I think social media get a lot of undeserved blame. The biggest culture shock I had coming to North America, how materialistic, exhibitionistic and keeping-up-with-the-joneses the whole culture is. Sure, social media has made it worse. Before you can broadcast your fancy car to your neighbors, but cannot broadcast your fancy dinner to the whole world. With social media it's possible to broadcast not only the fancy dinner also glamorized miniscule details of your life. So, the social media has made things worse. But the culture of materialism and obsession with status was there well before social media has come into the picture.

kingkawn 5y ago
If it’s a choice between uptight distaste and free wheeling materialism no wonder people choose the materialism
haswell 5y ago
> But the culture of materialism and obsession with status was there well before social media has come into the picture. This is a pretty gross generalization of an entire country filled with diverse people, a significant number of whom do not match this description at all, now or before social media. On what are you basing this? This sounds like the kind of conclusion you might draw by using social media as a measuring stick.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  The sample bias is social media itself. What is Facebook filled with? It changed the focus exponentially, wealthy countries tend to have more virtue signaling and programs that are luxuries, and broadcasting it. One of my favorite associations is of ice cream with Japanese demoralization during WW2. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/ice-cream-military/535980/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/ice-cream... https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2021/07/21/that-time-the-navy-spent-a-million-dollars-on-an-ice-cream-barge/ https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2021... I remember a war memoir where a Japanese soldier was demoralized when he saw a luxury pleasure cruiser of ice cream that many Japanese POWs were made to serve the soldiers, and realized they lost the war when these existed.
- i_haz_rabies 5y ago
  The entire US economy is built around materialistic consumerism. To be fair, pretty much every developed economy is like this, but the US is kinda the poster child of waste and excess.
- jensensbutton 5y ago
  Consumerism, in which purchasing is "related to the display of status and not to functionality or usefulness" was used to describe the American economy at least as far back as 1955.
- thrav 5y ago
  My evidence is only anecdotal, but as someone who grew up in, and lived all over America, and lived abroad, I couldn’t agree more with OP. My friends in London, and their friends, many of whom grew up quite wealthy, were nearly indistinguishable from anyone else in London. They rarely bought anything (except drugs), even on vacation (I traveled with a few a couple different times). In America, people proudly declare shopping a hobby.
  - haswell 5y ago
    > In America, people proudly declare shopping a hobby. In America, some subset of people declare shopping a hobby. And in the social media era, that subset amplifies that preference via their online presence. To be clear, I’m not saying consumerism doesn’t exist; it clearly does. But if we’re going on anecdotes, I’ve generally experienced the opposite of what you describe. Not because what you describe doesn’t exist, but it doesn’t seem to play a major role in the lives of most people I come in contact with. The wealthy people I do know don’t flaunt it, and would prefer to just live normal lives. They see wealth as a path to freedom, not stuff & things. Social and news media both skew our perspectives on the world.
    - thrav 5y ago
      I agree with most of what you’re saying here, but something that I didn’t communicate well is how far reaching this consumerism is. ‘Everything is bigger in Texas’ is actually a legitimate characterization. Bigger portions, bigger houses, bigger vehicles, etc. (I grew up there, live in NorCal now) Bigger => more consumption. You naturally buy less when you run out of places to put things. Europe is tighter. Public transit is better. Groceries are walkable, so you buy less more often, and only what you need => less waste. Paper towels aren’t even really a thing over there. Of course they exist, but no one buys 24 packs. They use rags. Same story for toilet paper. They use bidets. Most Europeans grow up playing football (soccer) or rugby and take up running as later life exercise. Americans are much more likely to exercise in ways that requires a bunch of purchases. They have space for home gyms that Europeans wouldn’t dream of, often even if they’re not wealthy. There are fewer public spaces, so people seem more likely to consume during leisure time in whatever way suits them (like aforementioned shopping, nails, bowling, movies, gun range, etc). Anyway… all of that to say my original comment was light on content, but there are massive cultural differences that go way beyond the way a few wealthy people present themselves that contribute to my sense that Americans are generally much more consumptive.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > This is a pretty gross generalization of an entire country filled with diverse people, a significant number of whom do not match this description at all, now or before social media. It's a generalization that probably has legs, though. IIRC, surveys show US culture is uniquely extreme in some areas (e.g. most individualistic in the world). Exceptions don't disprove a broad outline.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  While this connection is tenuous at best, according to Hofstede's Cultural Dimensions Theory [1], the US is a pretty heavily "Indulgent" culture. In a comparison I did on the website between the US, Germany, Japan, and Egypt [2] the US (closely mirrored by the UK in fact) scores much higher on "Indulgence" than the other listed cultures. There's nuance here because the results for South Africa, for example, are pretty different than Egypt, but it does go to show that the US is a pretty indulgent culture which I can credibly see correlating with a consumerist mindset. That said, there aren't enough studies on this out there, and I think it would be interesting to conduct this kind of research. (And if there is research here I'd love to be offered papers to read!) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions... [2]: https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/egypt,germany,japan,the-usa/ https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/egypt,g...
dreen 5y ago
I think you're kinda right but its not exclusive to US. Social media did not happen in a vacuum, there was a whole fertile ground prepared for it with decades of couch-potato consumer behavioural conditioning, which has been a global phenomenon for at least 50 years or so.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Is the name “social media” doublespeak? Comparing the online or digital equivalent or approximation as a simulation of reality has either created a false hyperreality at best but usually that of a poor imitation.
  - swebs 5y ago
    It is still reality. You're talking to real people, not NPCs.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      Define reality, and what real people/NPC is.
    - mattgreenrocks 5y ago
      Sometimes they're real, and sometimes they're idealized projections put forth by said people. This will happen in any setting but social media seems to encourage it for whatever reason. There are no easy solutions to this.
jtbayly 5y ago
At least one of the reports shows the same or similar effect across many cultures in many countries.
achenatx 5y ago
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/... https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_pop... I didnt bother to run any kind of correlation, but eyeballing states by suicide rates seems to correlate best with population density. The states that I associate with materialism seem to be the lowest on the scale of suicide rates but are more rural. Alternately older white men overwhelm all other groups for suicide. So what is being measured is the concentration of older white men.
bpodgursky 5y ago
Did you consider that that what created the materialism, is the same as what created the reason for you to move to NA in the first place?

kingkawn 5y ago

If it’s a choice between uptight distaste and free wheeling materialism no wonder people choose the materialism

haswell 5y ago

> But the culture of materialism and obsession with status was there well before social media has come into the picture. This is a pretty gross generalization of an entire country filled with diverse people, a significant number of whom do not match this description at all, now or before social media. On what are you basing this? This sounds like the kind of conclusion you might draw by using social media as a measuring stick.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
The sample bias is social media itself. What is Facebook filled with? It changed the focus exponentially, wealthy countries tend to have more virtue signaling and programs that are luxuries, and broadcasting it. One of my favorite associations is of ice cream with Japanese demoralization during WW2. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/ice-cream-military/535980/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/08/ice-cream... https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2021/07/21/that-time-the-navy-spent-a-million-dollars-on-an-ice-cream-barge/ https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2021... I remember a war memoir where a Japanese soldier was demoralized when he saw a luxury pleasure cruiser of ice cream that many Japanese POWs were made to serve the soldiers, and realized they lost the war when these existed.
i_haz_rabies 5y ago
The entire US economy is built around materialistic consumerism. To be fair, pretty much every developed economy is like this, but the US is kinda the poster child of waste and excess.
jensensbutton 5y ago
Consumerism, in which purchasing is "related to the display of status and not to functionality or usefulness" was used to describe the American economy at least as far back as 1955.
thrav 5y ago
My evidence is only anecdotal, but as someone who grew up in, and lived all over America, and lived abroad, I couldn’t agree more with OP. My friends in London, and their friends, many of whom grew up quite wealthy, were nearly indistinguishable from anyone else in London. They rarely bought anything (except drugs), even on vacation (I traveled with a few a couple different times). In America, people proudly declare shopping a hobby.
- haswell 5y ago
  > In America, people proudly declare shopping a hobby. In America, some subset of people declare shopping a hobby. And in the social media era, that subset amplifies that preference via their online presence. To be clear, I’m not saying consumerism doesn’t exist; it clearly does. But if we’re going on anecdotes, I’ve generally experienced the opposite of what you describe. Not because what you describe doesn’t exist, but it doesn’t seem to play a major role in the lives of most people I come in contact with. The wealthy people I do know don’t flaunt it, and would prefer to just live normal lives. They see wealth as a path to freedom, not stuff & things. Social and news media both skew our perspectives on the world.
  - thrav 5y ago
    I agree with most of what you’re saying here, but something that I didn’t communicate well is how far reaching this consumerism is. ‘Everything is bigger in Texas’ is actually a legitimate characterization. Bigger portions, bigger houses, bigger vehicles, etc. (I grew up there, live in NorCal now) Bigger => more consumption. You naturally buy less when you run out of places to put things. Europe is tighter. Public transit is better. Groceries are walkable, so you buy less more often, and only what you need => less waste. Paper towels aren’t even really a thing over there. Of course they exist, but no one buys 24 packs. They use rags. Same story for toilet paper. They use bidets. Most Europeans grow up playing football (soccer) or rugby and take up running as later life exercise. Americans are much more likely to exercise in ways that requires a bunch of purchases. They have space for home gyms that Europeans wouldn’t dream of, often even if they’re not wealthy. There are fewer public spaces, so people seem more likely to consume during leisure time in whatever way suits them (like aforementioned shopping, nails, bowling, movies, gun range, etc). Anyway… all of that to say my original comment was light on content, but there are massive cultural differences that go way beyond the way a few wealthy people present themselves that contribute to my sense that Americans are generally much more consumptive.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tablespoon 5y ago
> This is a pretty gross generalization of an entire country filled with diverse people, a significant number of whom do not match this description at all, now or before social media. It's a generalization that probably has legs, though. IIRC, surveys show US culture is uniquely extreme in some areas (e.g. most individualistic in the world). Exceptions don't disprove a broad outline.
Karrot_Kream 5y ago
While this connection is tenuous at best, according to Hofstede's Cultural Dimensions Theory [1], the US is a pretty heavily "Indulgent" culture. In a comparison I did on the website between the US, Germany, Japan, and Egypt [2] the US (closely mirrored by the UK in fact) scores much higher on "Indulgence" than the other listed cultures. There's nuance here because the results for South Africa, for example, are pretty different than Egypt, but it does go to show that the US is a pretty indulgent culture which I can credibly see correlating with a consumerist mindset. That said, there aren't enough studies on this out there, and I think it would be interesting to conduct this kind of research. (And if there is research here I'd love to be offered papers to read!) [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions... [2]: https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/egypt,germany,japan,the-usa/ https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/egypt,g...

dreen 5y ago

I think you're kinda right but its not exclusive to US. Social media did not happen in a vacuum, there was a whole fertile ground prepared for it with decades of couch-potato consumer behavioural conditioning, which has been a global phenomenon for at least 50 years or so.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Is the name “social media” doublespeak? Comparing the online or digital equivalent or approximation as a simulation of reality has either created a false hyperreality at best but usually that of a poor imitation.
- swebs 5y ago
  It is still reality. You're talking to real people, not NPCs.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    Define reality, and what real people/NPC is.
  - mattgreenrocks 5y ago
    Sometimes they're real, and sometimes they're idealized projections put forth by said people. This will happen in any setting but social media seems to encourage it for whatever reason. There are no easy solutions to this.

jtbayly 5y ago

At least one of the reports shows the same or similar effect across many cultures in many countries.

achenatx 5y ago

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/... https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_pop... I didnt bother to run any kind of correlation, but eyeballing states by suicide rates seems to correlate best with population density. The states that I associate with materialism seem to be the lowest on the scale of suicide rates but are more rural. Alternately older white men overwhelm all other groups for suicide. So what is being measured is the concentration of older white men.

bpodgursky 5y ago

Did you consider that that what created the materialism, is the same as what created the reason for you to move to NA in the first place?