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> What of those who graduated from engineering programs taught at engineer colleges? We are the actual Engineers. For US-Based IT workers, that means a degree

by urda 5y ago

> What of those who graduated from engineering programs taught at engineer colleges? We are the actual Engineers. For US-Based IT workers, that means a degree from an ABET [1] backed institution with a traditional undergrad and graduate programs. Anyone else calling themselves an "engineer" while doing IT work are not. In addition: Readers need to remember this isn't reddit and downvoting comments with facts you do not like is not appropriate for Hacker News. It's is depressing this reminder needs to be added here for facts as it appears a few readers here have forgotten already. [1] https://www.abet.org/ https://www.abet.org/

isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
I would trust someone graduating with CS degree from non-ABET accredited Stanford rather than someone from ABET-accredited CS program of Athens State University.
- urda 5y ago
  ... Except Stanford is ABET accredited, and as are all the major Engineering institutions and leaders. The fact that most users here are reaching to downvote literally the fact that leading Engineering institutions all fall in this bucket is absolutely depressing from this community. It's clear some feelings have been "hurt" here by other users having higher educations.
  - vitus 5y ago
    It's not all-or-nothing for the university -- some programs are not. "Like the CS department, the EE department is no longer ABET accredited. While such accreditation is useful in certain disciplines such as civil engineering, it has no practical significance whatsoever in computer science." https://cs.stanford.edu/degrees/undergrad/Considering.shtml https://cs.stanford.edu/degrees/undergrad/Considering.shtml Similarly, UC Berkeley also declined to renew their ABET acreditation for their EECS department, and so they haven't been ABET-accredited for the past few years. "Both of these programs are accredited by ABET through September 30, 2019, but because we have decided not to continue applying for ABET accreditation, we will be developing a single set of student learning outcomes for our department, rather than using the two sets of outcomes mandated by ABET for EECS departments. " https://eecs.berkeley.edu/academics/undergraduate/eecs-bs/objectives-outcomes https://eecs.berkeley.edu/academics/undergraduate/eecs-bs/ob...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
lucumo 5y ago
That's all just protectionism. Or an attempt at it, because it's clearly not working in the software industry. I am a graduate of such a school and it is a pain to even use that (earned and legally awarded) title in an international context because countries only recognise their own schools. Even in the EU, with its standardized EU-wide titles, you still can't use the "local" title of another country. Even if both titles are accredited to the same EU-title. It's all status games and protectionism. And it's a silly war to fight, because no one thinks a "software engineer" is an accredited engineer anymore anyway.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
cortesoft 5y ago
Just because a private organization says they have monopoly on the word “engineer” doesn’t mean they actually do.
- KnobbleMcKnees 5y ago
  Exactly this. Being told who the "real" engineers are is simply a good way of parting suckers with their money for "accreditation" or whatever such nonsense.
urda 5y ago
Completely depressing looking back at this thread and realizing that Hacker News has an issue with users holding advance degrees. I expect this jealousy and hatred from sites like reddit and Facebook, it should not be tolerated here on HN. This is NOT ok behavior especially from the amount of work these graduates and institutions have pushed into our fields. There is a complete lack of respect here and it shows. You are not an engineer if you did not flow through an ABET institution. You're a developer, nothing wrong with that but you're not an Engineer. No, I do not care if your company has other certain titles, those are easily made up and have no academic backing. This behavior we're seeing here is the same as if I pretended I was an MD after taking a first-aid-class. It's disrespectful to those that put in the effort to expand our academic understandings and our capabilities for others to turn around and then pretend that title is their own. It is not.

by urda 5y ago

isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago

I would trust someone graduating with CS degree from non-ABET accredited Stanford rather than someone from ABET-accredited CS program of Athens State University.

urda 5y ago
... Except Stanford is ABET accredited, and as are all the major Engineering institutions and leaders. The fact that most users here are reaching to downvote literally the fact that leading Engineering institutions all fall in this bucket is absolutely depressing from this community. It's clear some feelings have been "hurt" here by other users having higher educations.
- vitus 5y ago
  It's not all-or-nothing for the university -- some programs are not. "Like the CS department, the EE department is no longer ABET accredited. While such accreditation is useful in certain disciplines such as civil engineering, it has no practical significance whatsoever in computer science." https://cs.stanford.edu/degrees/undergrad/Considering.shtml https://cs.stanford.edu/degrees/undergrad/Considering.shtml Similarly, UC Berkeley also declined to renew their ABET acreditation for their EECS department, and so they haven't been ABET-accredited for the past few years. "Both of these programs are accredited by ABET through September 30, 2019, but because we have decided not to continue applying for ABET accreditation, we will be developing a single set of student learning outcomes for our department, rather than using the two sets of outcomes mandated by ABET for EECS departments. " https://eecs.berkeley.edu/academics/undergraduate/eecs-bs/objectives-outcomes https://eecs.berkeley.edu/academics/undergraduate/eecs-bs/ob...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

lucumo 5y ago

That's all just protectionism. Or an attempt at it, because it's clearly not working in the software industry. I am a graduate of such a school and it is a pain to even use that (earned and legally awarded) title in an international context because countries only recognise their own schools. Even in the EU, with its standardized EU-wide titles, you still can't use the "local" title of another country. Even if both titles are accredited to the same EU-title. It's all status games and protectionism. And it's a silly war to fight, because no one thinks a "software engineer" is an accredited engineer anymore anyway.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

cortesoft 5y ago

Just because a private organization says they have monopoly on the word “engineer” doesn’t mean they actually do.

KnobbleMcKnees 5y ago
Exactly this. Being told who the "real" engineers are is simply a good way of parting suckers with their money for "accreditation" or whatever such nonsense.

urda 5y ago

Completely depressing looking back at this thread and realizing that Hacker News has an issue with users holding advance degrees. I expect this jealousy and hatred from sites like reddit and Facebook, it should not be tolerated here on HN. This is NOT ok behavior especially from the amount of work these graduates and institutions have pushed into our fields. There is a complete lack of respect here and it shows. You are not an engineer if you did not flow through an ABET institution. You're a developer, nothing wrong with that but you're not an Engineer. No, I do not care if your company has other certain titles, those are easily made up and have no academic backing. This behavior we're seeing here is the same as if I pretended I was an MD after taking a first-aid-class. It's disrespectful to those that put in the effort to expand our academic understandings and our capabilities for others to turn around and then pretend that title is their own. It is not.