6 ms·

They are absolutely enforceable. A court might not enforce them, because, depending on your state, they may be of questionable validity. But people who don't

by ep103 5y ago

They are absolutely enforceable. A court might not enforce them, because, depending on your state, they may be of questionable validity. But people who don't know that will believe they are enforced. People who aren't willing to risk going to court will have to act as if they are enforced. People who can't afford to go to court will have to act like they are enforced. *Additionally, I have seen these contracts enforced outside the court system as well.* I had a friend who was fired from a job he went to, because his former employer called his future employer, and threatened a lawsuit / threatened to drop mutual business because the future employer helped the employee break the non-compete agreement. The past employer may not have had any case (except for the lost business), but the future employer didn't want to deal with legal trouble, and it was easier to just find a reason to fire the employee. How sure are you that you won't be fired at your new job, because a conversation like that took place behind closed doors? How sure are you that McDonalds would be willing to foot a legal bill to defend their new minimum wage employee, if Burger King threatened legal action? Non-compete abuse needs legal reform.

mushbino 5y ago
Can you find a case of where they've successfully sued someone for this?
- testesttest 5y ago
  The point is they don't have to be successful to have teeth. A fast food worker probably can't afford a single day in court.
  - Rd6n6 5y ago
    They can’t afford the lawyer consultation fees prior to court
- fragmede 5y ago
  Absolutely. The Wikipedia article is full of them. What's critically important to know is the rules where you live because they're different depending on jurisdiction. If you are in California, non-competes are invalid. (Silicon Valley was built upon the Traitorous Eight.) If you are in Massachusetts, non-competes are valid (and you better hope you don't need a new job in biotech any time soon). Talk to your lawyer for advice.
porknubbins 5y ago
If your friend was in a fast food type job it sounds like he would have a good lawsuit in most places. Can’t imagine any business interest the court would recognize there. Yes its terrible that big companies bully workers like this but it only stops when someone stands up and fights them.
Wowfunhappy 5y ago
By this logic, anything is enforceable because some people will think it's enforceable. Your point is a valid one, but it's also good to tell everyone that these contracts are not legally enforceable!
- matthewdgreen 5y ago
  It would be even better if Federal and State governments told employees they were unenforceable, and better still if they did this after passing explicit legislation to ban the practice entirely (with civil penalties for employers who disregarded the law.)
- krageon 5y ago
  If in practice a company can sue you and force you to pay legal fees until you are deep in debt (and you are not sure about winning), they are correct. Even if it's illegal, even if you would probably win. Edit: What I'm trying to say is these contract should not just be illegal, the corporations using them should be fined into the ground retroactively for ever having had people sign them knowing (because they definitely know) that it is illegal. It's a willfully malicious action.
bradknowles 5y ago
In the US, it depends on what state you’re in. In California, for example, non-competes are illegal. So, companies sign or verbally negotiate mutual non-poaching agreements, like Apple and Google did a while back. In other states, nothing prevents non-competes, and if an employer can get you to sign the paper, then that is enforceable against you with legal action. You can hope that the National Labor Review Board would be on your side and help defend you against such legal action, but there’s no guarantee that they would do so. IMO, non-competes should be reserved for situations where you’re touching deep secrets within the company, and then only for short periods of time. Like CxO or Director type company officers, or Principal Software Developers or something like that. No one else should be subject to them.
- jobigoud 5y ago
  > In California, for example, non-competes are illegal. Illegal or just non enforceable? What is the fine or punishment to a company that would do it anyway?
  - bradknowles 5y ago
    Hmm. Yes, you are most likely correct. I should have used the term “non enforceable”. Thanks for the correction!

by ep103 5y ago

mushbino 5y ago

Can you find a case of where they've successfully sued someone for this?

testesttest 5y ago
The point is they don't have to be successful to have teeth. A fast food worker probably can't afford a single day in court.
- Rd6n6 5y ago
  They can’t afford the lawyer consultation fees prior to court
fragmede 5y ago
Absolutely. The Wikipedia article is full of them. What's critically important to know is the rules where you live because they're different depending on jurisdiction. If you are in California, non-competes are invalid. (Silicon Valley was built upon the Traitorous Eight.) If you are in Massachusetts, non-competes are valid (and you better hope you don't need a new job in biotech any time soon). Talk to your lawyer for advice.

porknubbins 5y ago

If your friend was in a fast food type job it sounds like he would have a good lawsuit in most places. Can’t imagine any business interest the court would recognize there. Yes its terrible that big companies bully workers like this but it only stops when someone stands up and fights them.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

By this logic, anything is enforceable because some people will think it's enforceable. Your point is a valid one, but it's also good to tell everyone that these contracts are not legally enforceable!

matthewdgreen 5y ago
It would be even better if Federal and State governments told employees they were unenforceable, and better still if they did this after passing explicit legislation to ban the practice entirely (with civil penalties for employers who disregarded the law.)
krageon 5y ago
If in practice a company can sue you and force you to pay legal fees until you are deep in debt (and you are not sure about winning), they are correct. Even if it's illegal, even if you would probably win. Edit: What I'm trying to say is these contract should not just be illegal, the corporations using them should be fined into the ground retroactively for ever having had people sign them knowing (because they definitely know) that it is illegal. It's a willfully malicious action.

bradknowles 5y ago

In the US, it depends on what state you’re in. In California, for example, non-competes are illegal. So, companies sign or verbally negotiate mutual non-poaching agreements, like Apple and Google did a while back. In other states, nothing prevents non-competes, and if an employer can get you to sign the paper, then that is enforceable against you with legal action. You can hope that the National Labor Review Board would be on your side and help defend you against such legal action, but there’s no guarantee that they would do so. IMO, non-competes should be reserved for situations where you’re touching deep secrets within the company, and then only for short periods of time. Like CxO or Director type company officers, or Principal Software Developers or something like that. No one else should be subject to them.

jobigoud 5y ago
> In California, for example, non-competes are illegal. Illegal or just non enforceable? What is the fine or punishment to a company that would do it anyway?
- bradknowles 5y ago
  Hmm. Yes, you are most likely correct. I should have used the term “non enforceable”. Thanks for the correction!