5 ms·

This weekend I'll be travelling from Innsbruck to Vienna, a good chunk of the entire length of Austria. I'm not here enough (and not travelling around enough)

This weekend I'll be travelling from Innsbruck to Vienna, a good chunk of the entire length of Austria. I'm not here enough (and not travelling around enough) to be interested in the Klimaticket, but here's how public transport vs car stacks up: Innsbruck to Vienna is 476km (~300mi) by road. It takes about 5 hours to drive, assuming no delays. The way the world is right now, there will certainly be delays. On the fastest route you exit Austria just after Kufstein and enter Germany at Kiefersfelden, drive through Germany on the A93, then on the A8 towards Salzburg, then cross back into Austria. Pre-2015 you'd typically have crossed both those international borders at standard motorway speed(!), but since the refugee crisis, and even more since Covid, it's checkpoints (=delays) galore. By train the journey is scheduled at ~4h15m. The train also enters Germany but doesn't stop there, so no border checks. A standard ("2nd class"/economy) walk-up train fare is €74 ($85), but if you buy an annual railcard for €66 ($76) that's halved, so €37 ($43). This is a completely flexible ticket valid on any service that day, so if you are late (or early) you just get on the next train, and there's basically one every hour pretty much throughout the day. The railcard pays for itself in the first return trip. Maybe it's just me, but €37 for a 300mi journey, with a completely flexible ticket, just seems like amazing value.

jahnu 5y ago
Even during the lockdowns there were times of no checkpoints on the borders again. It was such a relief to finally see them gone. I hope they aren't back again. But yes that is amazing value and travel by train is just nicer.
- logifail 5y ago
  > Even during the lockdowns there were times of no checkpoints on the borders again. It was such a relief to finally see them gone. Unstaffed, or actually gone? :) Last time I drove into Austria from Germany there were no border guards there to actually check anything, but all the traffic calming measures, warning signs and speed restrictions were still there ("cars use left-hand lane, larger/freight vehicles right hand lane"). As one might expect from Homo sapiens behind the wheel, the frantic changing of lanes by vehicles approaching the (unmanned) checkpoint caused an enormous queue and resulting delay almost as bad as if there had been border guards actually checking every single vehicle.
  - jahnu 5y ago
    Just the usual slow down to 60km and 80km which are always there if I remember correctly.
- herbst 5y ago
  The border between Germany and Austria near Salzburg is a special case. Since the refugee crises there are regular big controls. Locals avoid it whenever possible, even thought this is the most direct way for many connections. Avoid taking a bus over that border, and if you do don't panic when they enter with dogs and machine guns and expect a 2 hour delay
Aeolun 5y ago
I think your car is completely flexible too? It can also leave and arrive anywhere you want. Cost may be a bit higher though. You’re liable to burn through 30ish liters of fuel at a price of around €50.
- junga 5y ago
  Prices for travelling by car should contain way more stuff than just gas. There's taxes, insurance, repair and all that nasty stuff that really makes very high costs per mile or kilometer if you do the math.
  - korantu 5y ago
    Though if one already have a car, then it might make sense to use it to get better value from tax and insurance
    - junga 5y ago
      I'm not sure if I'd agree. This might as well be another mutation of sunk cost fallacy. Anyway, the sooner you sell your car, the higher the price. (ignoring really old and valuable cars here)
yarcob 5y ago
I still think it should be cheaper. The rail card thing is just a scheme to overcharge casual riders and tourists. It's reasonable for people who regularly go by train, but for people like me who do just one or two trips a year it feels like a rip-off. Especially if I want to take my kids, I need to get a different rail card for families, and when you add it all up it's a lot more expensive than taking my car. For some reason, public transport is always priced in a way that makes it really expensive for occassional usage. If you go everday, then an annual pass is a good value. If you only ride on public transit occasionally, and you have a car, then taking the car is almost always cheaper. It shouldn't be like that.
- logifail 5y ago
  > The rail card thing is just a scheme to overcharge casual riders and tourists. It's reasonable for people who regularly go by train (...) At least for me, one return trip at the reduced rate pays for the price of buying the railcard (which is valid for 12 months). It's not like one has to sit down with Excel to figure out where the break-even point lies! If I don't make any additional rail journeys in Austria over the next year, I'm still not out of pocket...
  - yarcob 5y ago
    If you do only one trip a year, then that trip costs 140€ (37 * 2 + 66) If you do the trip 10 times a year then it costs 81€ per trip (37 * 2 + 66 / 10). So in this case the occasional rider pays 59€ more per trip than the regular rider.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  > For some reason, public transport is always priced in a way that makes it really expensive for occassional usage. If you go everday, then an annual pass is a good value. At €1.32/l for gas in Vienna and 10l/100km this trip would cost you €63 in gas alone with an ICE car. This doesn't account for wear and wasted time so it's actually not that unreasonable at all and actually pretty cheap if you're going by yourself. With a family, I agree, it's more expensive. Although I'm starting to see the appeal that traveling by train has with a family, being able to walk around, entertain the kids more easily, etc.
mtalantikite 5y ago
Here in the US, a shorter trip of NYC to Boston (~364km/226mi) is about 4.5 hours to drive or a little faster by train (faster train "acela" is 3h45m, regular is 4h20m). I'm assuming a "walk-up fare" is just day of, when you arrive at the station. That's generally not something we can do here as trains sell out, but for tomorrow tickets are $170 for the longer train, and between $140-$220 for the faster train (depending on departure time). Prices are one-way. Flying is often cheaper even at these distances, which is infuriating to me. I'd love to have that $85 full walk-up fare you're getting. I really wish we cared about rail travel here, it's far preferable for me to flying or driving on trips at this distance.
- utucuro 5y ago
  One aspect of train travel that is particularly interesting in Germany is that ticket prices do NOT include seating. That is to say, the fact that you bought a ticket does not imply that you can expect to sit during your ride. You have to buy a numbered seating reservation if you want to have a guaranteed seat, which is not necessarily offered for all lines.
- smtm 5y ago
  A trip of 364km should not take 3h45 or 4.5 hrs. 2 hours should be expected on a route like that. The train would go at 185 km/h average speed. That is not even Japan or Chinese style high speed - just a well maintained railway infrastructure. With a 2 hour trip time you could get many people to switch...
deleted 5y ago
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jahnu 5y ago

Even during the lockdowns there were times of no checkpoints on the borders again. It was such a relief to finally see them gone. I hope they aren't back again. But yes that is amazing value and travel by train is just nicer.

logifail 5y ago
> Even during the lockdowns there were times of no checkpoints on the borders again. It was such a relief to finally see them gone. Unstaffed, or actually gone? :) Last time I drove into Austria from Germany there were no border guards there to actually check anything, but all the traffic calming measures, warning signs and speed restrictions were still there ("cars use left-hand lane, larger/freight vehicles right hand lane"). As one might expect from Homo sapiens behind the wheel, the frantic changing of lanes by vehicles approaching the (unmanned) checkpoint caused an enormous queue and resulting delay almost as bad as if there had been border guards actually checking every single vehicle.
- jahnu 5y ago
  Just the usual slow down to 60km and 80km which are always there if I remember correctly.
herbst 5y ago
The border between Germany and Austria near Salzburg is a special case. Since the refugee crises there are regular big controls. Locals avoid it whenever possible, even thought this is the most direct way for many connections. Avoid taking a bus over that border, and if you do don't panic when they enter with dogs and machine guns and expect a 2 hour delay

Aeolun 5y ago

I think your car is completely flexible too? It can also leave and arrive anywhere you want. Cost may be a bit higher though. You’re liable to burn through 30ish liters of fuel at a price of around €50.

junga 5y ago
Prices for travelling by car should contain way more stuff than just gas. There's taxes, insurance, repair and all that nasty stuff that really makes very high costs per mile or kilometer if you do the math.
- korantu 5y ago
  Though if one already have a car, then it might make sense to use it to get better value from tax and insurance
  - junga 5y ago
    I'm not sure if I'd agree. This might as well be another mutation of sunk cost fallacy. Anyway, the sooner you sell your car, the higher the price. (ignoring really old and valuable cars here)

yarcob 5y ago

I still think it should be cheaper. The rail card thing is just a scheme to overcharge casual riders and tourists. It's reasonable for people who regularly go by train, but for people like me who do just one or two trips a year it feels like a rip-off. Especially if I want to take my kids, I need to get a different rail card for families, and when you add it all up it's a lot more expensive than taking my car. For some reason, public transport is always priced in a way that makes it really expensive for occassional usage. If you go everday, then an annual pass is a good value. If you only ride on public transit occasionally, and you have a car, then taking the car is almost always cheaper. It shouldn't be like that.

logifail 5y ago
> The rail card thing is just a scheme to overcharge casual riders and tourists. It's reasonable for people who regularly go by train (...) At least for me, one return trip at the reduced rate pays for the price of buying the railcard (which is valid for 12 months). It's not like one has to sit down with Excel to figure out where the break-even point lies! If I don't make any additional rail journeys in Austria over the next year, I'm still not out of pocket...
- yarcob 5y ago
  If you do only one trip a year, then that trip costs 140€ (37 * 2 + 66) If you do the trip 10 times a year then it costs 81€ per trip (37 * 2 + 66 / 10). So in this case the occasional rider pays 59€ more per trip than the regular rider.
barbazoo 5y ago
> For some reason, public transport is always priced in a way that makes it really expensive for occassional usage. If you go everday, then an annual pass is a good value. At €1.32/l for gas in Vienna and 10l/100km this trip would cost you €63 in gas alone with an ICE car. This doesn't account for wear and wasted time so it's actually not that unreasonable at all and actually pretty cheap if you're going by yourself. With a family, I agree, it's more expensive. Although I'm starting to see the appeal that traveling by train has with a family, being able to walk around, entertain the kids more easily, etc.

mtalantikite 5y ago

Here in the US, a shorter trip of NYC to Boston (~364km/226mi) is about 4.5 hours to drive or a little faster by train (faster train "acela" is 3h45m, regular is 4h20m). I'm assuming a "walk-up fare" is just day of, when you arrive at the station. That's generally not something we can do here as trains sell out, but for tomorrow tickets are $170 for the longer train, and between $140-$220 for the faster train (depending on departure time). Prices are one-way. Flying is often cheaper even at these distances, which is infuriating to me. I'd love to have that $85 full walk-up fare you're getting. I really wish we cared about rail travel here, it's far preferable for me to flying or driving on trips at this distance.

utucuro 5y ago
One aspect of train travel that is particularly interesting in Germany is that ticket prices do NOT include seating. That is to say, the fact that you bought a ticket does not imply that you can expect to sit during your ride. You have to buy a numbered seating reservation if you want to have a guaranteed seat, which is not necessarily offered for all lines.
smtm 5y ago
A trip of 364km should not take 3h45 or 4.5 hrs. 2 hours should be expected on a route like that. The train would go at 185 km/h average speed. That is not even Japan or Chinese style high speed - just a well maintained railway infrastructure. With a 2 hour trip time you could get many people to switch...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]