9 ms·

Kind of curious how that works, you just show up with a frozen bat in a box at USPS and they accept it?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
floatingatoll 5y ago
Yes, if you comply with the relevant regulations. https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm#ep184109 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm#ep184109 526.7 Dead Animals or Parts of Animals "GROUP A: Items that need to be refrigerated" "GROUP B: Items that must be dried" https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_003.htm#ep183811 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_003.htm#ep183811 521 General Requirements "protection of animal specimens against spoilage" "Mailers are urged to work with postmasters" https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_027.htm#ep900096 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_027.htm#ep900096 349.23 Dry Ice "containers that permit the release of carbon dioxide gas and conform to 49 CFR 173.217 and 175.10(a)(10)" https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_029.htm#ep1000804 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_029.htm#ep1000804 USPS Packaging Instruction 9A "must be clearly marked “Carbon Dioxide Solid, UN1845” Or “Dry Ice, UN1845”"
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Like a lot of things in life, it probably falls under "don't ask, don't tell", probably with some dry ice thrown in for good measure.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Mailing dry ice without following proper procedures as you describe can result in you being fined or arrested by the postal service, especially if your unlabeled dry ice injures a postal worker. Please don't put human beings at risk for the sake of laziness in mailing. There are good reasons for the rules, even if they're frustrating.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    I knew there would be a comment like this. Excuse my while my eyes roll several loops in my skull. Yes, mailing stuff that requires labeling without those labels can get you in deep shit (because the feds don't really do shallow shit). That doesn't mean everyone doesn't do it left and right. Go buy some refrigerated food or medication off eBay and see how it ships. Heck, a certain country will ship you all manner of truly dangerous things in nothing more than a bubble wrap envelope. The amount of dry ice required to refrigerate a bat (or tub of caviar, or niche cheese, or whatever) is easy to package safely. Throw it in a rag in a strofoam temp cooler. Do a non-terrible job boxing it up and it won't get out in any form other than as a gas. This is one of the many cases where the behavior of the average individual is not in accordance with the law and (as 20+yr of eCommerce have shown us) nothing bad happens except in cases of exceptional stupidity. I know that "but the law" and assumptions of stupidity of the general public make for easy points around here but neither complaint is materially relevant in this situation.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - floatingatoll 5y ago
      Yes, people knowingly set aside safety guidelines for their personal convenience all the time. Many NTSB investigations end up saying “pilot apparently skipped pre-flight checklist”. As with all such things, it’s fine until it’s not, and when something does eventually go wrong (and it will), the blame will rest on your shoulders for taking safety shortcuts. So I choose not to gamble the safety of others to avoid having to label a package as Dry Ice, even if others take the gamble instead.
    - throwaway09223 5y ago
      "Do a non-terrible job boxing it up and it won't get out in any form other than as a gas." It sounds like you're assuming dry ice is only dangerous in terms of cold burns. The gas, carbon dioxide, is dangerous as well. People have died transporting dry ice in a vehicle. CO2 isn't the most dangerous gas, but in an enclosed space like a delivery vehicle it can cause problems. A delivery service needs to consider the cumulative effects of all packages. Your dry ice package may not be the only one in a vehicle. Individuals without experience are generally not capable of doing a thorough risk assessment, which is why regulations are so important.
dangrossman 5y ago
Is it any different from Omaha Steaks shipping you some frozen steaks and burgers? As long as your box doesn't leak or smell, nobody at USPS is going to open it.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Yes. Omaha Steaks conform to USDA regulations and are regulated under 55 Meats, rather than 52 Animals: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_011.htm https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_011.htm However, there is 349.23 Dry Ice, which applies to any package using it, whether meat or animal or other: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_027.htm#ep900096 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_027.htm#ep900096 Note that USPS also requires you to declare if a package contains Perishable or Hazardous goods, and label it clearly if it's being mailed under 52 Animals: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_004.htm https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_004.htm If you fail to do so, they can in theory fine you or have you arrested — especially for failing to declare dry ice, which falls under Hazard Class 9, the "miscellaneous" class: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_004.htm https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_004.htm "Anyone who mails, or causes to be mailed, a nonmailable or improperly packaged hazardous material can be subject to legal penalties (i.e., fines and/or imprisonment)"
  - mikestew 5y ago
    and are regulated under 55 Meats, rather than 52 Animals Talk about your "you must be fun at parties"; and this isn't necessarily directed at you, floatingatoll, but when I see comments like this I often wonder if it's a case of "memorizes USPS shipping rules for fun" or more likely "worked on a contract once where we had to codify USPS shipping rules into an application, so I don't have them memorized but sure as hell know where to look". For example, I've written code for computers to consume for the vast majority of my career. But go ahead and ask me the finer points of cellophane manufacturing...please, I've been waiting years for it to come up in conversation.
    - teachrdan 5y ago
      I would like to sign up for cellophane facts.
silicon2401 5y ago
Not an answer, but there was an excellent thread about this topic this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28210780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28210780
ranieuwe 5y ago
Yup. Had to pack bat in a freezer ziploc and stick it in the freezer. Then when shipping, pack it in another freezer ziploc with paper towels (for moisture) and a blue ice pack (no dry ice). After that, put in a box with a UN 3373 category B label affixed to it. Add contents list to the box as required by the label and after that drop off with your mail company of choice (UPS in our case). Seems to be a common thing, no one bat an eye :)
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Ooo, fancy. "Biological Substance"! I missed that USPS would classify this as infectious matter, which is where they're hiding that UN requirement.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Yes, if you comply with the relevant regulations. https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm#ep184109 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm#ep184109 526.7 Dead Animals or Parts of Animals "GROUP A: Items that need to be refrigerated" "GROUP B: Items that must be dried" https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_003.htm#ep183811 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_003.htm#ep183811 521 General Requirements "protection of animal specimens against spoilage" "Mailers are urged to work with postmasters" https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_027.htm#ep900096 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_027.htm#ep900096 349.23 Dry Ice "containers that permit the release of carbon dioxide gas and conform to 49 CFR 173.217 and 175.10(a)(10)" https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_029.htm#ep1000804 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_029.htm#ep1000804 USPS Packaging Instruction 9A "must be clearly marked “Carbon Dioxide Solid, UN1845” Or “Dry Ice, UN1845”"

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

Like a lot of things in life, it probably falls under "don't ask, don't tell", probably with some dry ice thrown in for good measure.

floatingatoll 5y ago
Mailing dry ice without following proper procedures as you describe can result in you being fined or arrested by the postal service, especially if your unlabeled dry ice injures a postal worker. Please don't put human beings at risk for the sake of laziness in mailing. There are good reasons for the rules, even if they're frustrating.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  I knew there would be a comment like this. Excuse my while my eyes roll several loops in my skull. Yes, mailing stuff that requires labeling without those labels can get you in deep shit (because the feds don't really do shallow shit). That doesn't mean everyone doesn't do it left and right. Go buy some refrigerated food or medication off eBay and see how it ships. Heck, a certain country will ship you all manner of truly dangerous things in nothing more than a bubble wrap envelope. The amount of dry ice required to refrigerate a bat (or tub of caviar, or niche cheese, or whatever) is easy to package safely. Throw it in a rag in a strofoam temp cooler. Do a non-terrible job boxing it up and it won't get out in any form other than as a gas. This is one of the many cases where the behavior of the average individual is not in accordance with the law and (as 20+yr of eCommerce have shown us) nothing bad happens except in cases of exceptional stupidity. I know that "but the law" and assumptions of stupidity of the general public make for easy points around here but neither complaint is materially relevant in this situation.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - floatingatoll 5y ago
    Yes, people knowingly set aside safety guidelines for their personal convenience all the time. Many NTSB investigations end up saying “pilot apparently skipped pre-flight checklist”. As with all such things, it’s fine until it’s not, and when something does eventually go wrong (and it will), the blame will rest on your shoulders for taking safety shortcuts. So I choose not to gamble the safety of others to avoid having to label a package as Dry Ice, even if others take the gamble instead.
  - throwaway09223 5y ago
    "Do a non-terrible job boxing it up and it won't get out in any form other than as a gas." It sounds like you're assuming dry ice is only dangerous in terms of cold burns. The gas, carbon dioxide, is dangerous as well. People have died transporting dry ice in a vehicle. CO2 isn't the most dangerous gas, but in an enclosed space like a delivery vehicle it can cause problems. A delivery service needs to consider the cumulative effects of all packages. Your dry ice package may not be the only one in a vehicle. Individuals without experience are generally not capable of doing a thorough risk assessment, which is why regulations are so important.

dangrossman 5y ago

Is it any different from Omaha Steaks shipping you some frozen steaks and burgers? As long as your box doesn't leak or smell, nobody at USPS is going to open it.

floatingatoll 5y ago
Yes. Omaha Steaks conform to USDA regulations and are regulated under 55 Meats, rather than 52 Animals: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_011.htm https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_011.htm However, there is 349.23 Dry Ice, which applies to any package using it, whether meat or animal or other: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_027.htm#ep900096 https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_027.htm#ep900096 Note that USPS also requires you to declare if a package contains Perishable or Hazardous goods, and label it clearly if it's being mailed under 52 Animals: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_004.htm https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_004.htm If you fail to do so, they can in theory fine you or have you arrested — especially for failing to declare dry ice, which falls under Hazard Class 9, the "miscellaneous" class: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_004.htm https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c3_004.htm "Anyone who mails, or causes to be mailed, a nonmailable or improperly packaged hazardous material can be subject to legal penalties (i.e., fines and/or imprisonment)"
- mikestew 5y ago
  and are regulated under 55 Meats, rather than 52 Animals Talk about your "you must be fun at parties"; and this isn't necessarily directed at you, floatingatoll, but when I see comments like this I often wonder if it's a case of "memorizes USPS shipping rules for fun" or more likely "worked on a contract once where we had to codify USPS shipping rules into an application, so I don't have them memorized but sure as hell know where to look". For example, I've written code for computers to consume for the vast majority of my career. But go ahead and ask me the finer points of cellophane manufacturing...please, I've been waiting years for it to come up in conversation.
  - teachrdan 5y ago
    I would like to sign up for cellophane facts.

silicon2401 5y ago

Not an answer, but there was an excellent thread about this topic this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28210780 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28210780

ranieuwe 5y ago

Yup. Had to pack bat in a freezer ziploc and stick it in the freezer. Then when shipping, pack it in another freezer ziploc with paper towels (for moisture) and a blue ice pack (no dry ice). After that, put in a box with a UN 3373 category B label affixed to it. Add contents list to the box as required by the label and after that drop off with your mail company of choice (UPS in our case). Seems to be a common thing, no one bat an eye :)

floatingatoll 5y ago
Ooo, fancy. "Biological Substance"! I missed that USPS would classify this as infectious matter, which is where they're hiding that UN requirement.