16 ms·

Fairphone 4 has a five-year warranty and aims for six years of updates

222 points by iechoz6H 5y ago

kiba 5y ago
But is a fairphone something I can buy in the US?
- Vinnl 5y ago
  Only EU and the UK at this time it seems.
LeonaWilson 5y ago
The Best And Easiest Ways To Protect Yourself From Hackers- https://www.hackerslist.co/the-best-and-easiest-ways-to-protect-yourself-from-hackers/ https://www.hackerslist.co/the-best-and-easiest-ways-to-prot...
warrenmiller 5y ago
whats the deal with the 3 camera holes and only 2 cameras? is that future proofing?
- glfharris 5y ago
  The article says its for a autofocus system, as well as colour and time of flight sensors.
KingOfCoders 5y ago
I would have bought a Fairphone last year instead of a Realme, when the camera wasn't ten years behind :-( Is this state of the art? (Not very fancy just a state of the art sensor and optics).
intricatedetail 5y ago
Is it really repairable? I mean if a chip in the core module fails, can you buy just the chip and replace it or you need a whole new module? If the latter, then what makes it different from any other phone?
- styx31 5y ago
  It's all other parts: display (90€), camera (50€), battery (30€), etc. The typical pieces which are exposed to the outside and can suffer damages. See: https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts?phone_type=4 https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts?phone_type=4
  - criddell 5y ago
    Why is the display so expensive? I just had the display in an iPhone replaced and it was $60.
    - ygra 5y ago
      I guess in a typical phone the display is basically a unit that is comprised of the glass, the actual display, and the digitizer sandwiched and glued together; that makes it more than a single component already. And the price difference between the iPhone and the Fairphone one might mostly be demand. There's probably a lot more iPhone display units out there than even Fairphones of all generations.
    - joshuajill 5y ago
      It's more expensive most likely because they're not outsourcing environmental and human rights costs. Also, they are not gathering and selling your data unlike many others.
      - intricatedetail 5y ago
        As I understand it is mostly made in China so it's isn't true.
        lucideer 5y ago
        They are outsourcing but they're specifically negotiating contracts that guarantee living wages, ethical worker conditions and ethically sourced raw materials, so that's gonna be factored into costs. See: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/12/18/living-wage/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/12/18/living-wage/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/category/good-working-conditions/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/category/good-working-condition...
iechoz6H 5y ago
I have a Fairphone 3+, bought about 6 weeks ago. I might have waited if I'd know this was on the horizon. I flashed mine with /e/ OS (WTF's with that name?) and it has been fantastic. My only complaint is the fingerprint sensor is a little clunky.
- tannhaeuser 5y ago
  That's what I'm about to do when my iPhone will pass away eventually (but probably from eSolutions directly). Though I really want my phone to be small, and rather don't want the Predator-like optical aiming device; just a basic up-to-date camera would be fine with me.
- keraf 5y ago
  Have the FP3+ for about 6 months with /e/OS as well, very happy with it until the USB-C port stopped working. I can either ship the entire phone back for repair (ordered from fairphone.com) or buy the bottom module and replace it myself. I prefer the latter as it's one of the reasons I bought the phone for. Unfortunately that part is currently out of stock... Looking at forums, it seems to be a common issue.
- Elte 5y ago
  Tip: Scotch tape. I was immensely frustrated with the fingerprint sensor on my FP3, which would only register in perfect conditions, so I had to type my password half the time. Somewhere online I read the tip to put a piece of scotch tape over it, which sounded utterly ridiculous, but at the same time so straightforward and harmless that I tried. I have no idea why it works, but I'm only typing my password whenever the "extra security" counter kicks in now.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  FWIW, the sensor works flawlessly on mine. Maybe how the fingerprint is recorded matters ? I moved my finger slightly between each take in the calibration process.
MerelyMortal 5y ago
Previous discussion that's 26 minutes older and links to Fairphone's website instead of an article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28705037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28705037
kmfrk 5y ago
I looked into getting one when my old iPhone had to be replaced, and the main complaint seemed to be how far behind the firmware updates were. It's a hard thing to scale for, but I hope they figure out the bottleneck to adoption of an otherwise cool idea.
dev_snd 5y ago
I used to have a Fairphone 2, but it had multiple problems. A partially working touchscreen, a malfunctioning headphone jack and then a bad battery. and the shipment of replacement parts were so slow that I finally had to buy a second, cheaper phone while waiting for the new parts, which isn't really part of fairphones mission statement. Next next phone I bought still works today, mich longer than the 1.5 Fairphones I had bought before. Whats sad about that experience, is that it made me sceptical. I now need to wait for the new model to prove reliable in reviews before I'd buy it, but by that time the mid-tier hardware would be completely outdated alteady. In essence it'll take years for them to gain my trust back. Still i hope that products like this or the framework laptop take off.
- Vinnl 5y ago
  I'm still on my Fairphone 2, but indeed it has a number of issues. Most of those are caused by it being relatively fragile due to being repairable without tools, which I've demoed a bit too often to people. My girlfriend has a Fairphone 3, which is much better in this regard: while the tools-free repairability is a nice gimmic, the 3 requires a standard screwdriver. That's slightly more work, but perfectly fine for something that is used (hopefully) so rarely, and as a result, it's a lot more stable than mine is. Which is to say: sure I'm disappointed, but it's also part of the risk when buying a company's second phone, and the first they designed themselves. When the issues with my 2 become too much, it looks like I'll be getting a Fairphone 4. But first let's see how long I can make this one last.
- rvense 5y ago
  I know lots of people had issues with their FP2, but I have to say I used mine for just under five years (before it stopped booting). I'll give that it didn't always feel reliable (random reboots etc), but it worked well enough. I bought an FP3 earlier in the year and it's been very decent so far. But I'm extremely disappointed by the lack of the headphone jack in this new one, and I think I'm going to go write an angry e-mail to them now.
  - hkt 5y ago
    I'm the same about FP3: I'm writing this reply on one, running e/OS/ with no googly stuff on. I'm delighted with it so far. I intend to keep this as long as humanly possible. I'll take a new phone on my 40th birthday (I'm 32)
DrBenCarson 5y ago
To play devil’s advocate, my iPhone has already achieved 6y of updates and why would I pre-pay for fixes in the form of a warranty? (Right to repair issues aside, and I don’t say that lightly, just don’t think it changes the answer for the avg consumer)
- vosper 5y ago
  And Apple are still shipping security updates for iOS 12 (last one a few weeks ago), so even the 8 year old iPhone 5s is still getting updated.
- busymom0 5y ago
  Same here. While I am not a fan of Apple because of the recent privacy debacle, my iPhone 6S is still working from 2014. I just updated it to the latest iOS 15 last night too. Other than the battery, everything else works fine in it.
  - FemmeAndroid 5y ago
    If you haven't done it yet do consider a battery replacement from Apple. It's $49 for a 6S, and it made a huge difference for me after about five years with the same phone. When I did it, I believe the replacement was able to be done in store while I waited. https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-power https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-powe...
    - busymom0 5y ago
      I have been considering doing it myself using iFixit or cheaper alternative. I am in Canada so after taxes and CAD, it comes close to $90 I think.
alexandrerond 5y ago
I'm fully onboard with fair sourcing of materials etc. But what is with "repairability" as an excuse to make fragile, inferior phones? I had a pixel 3 and I swapped camera, microphones, usb c port. The iFixit kit needed for this costs a few bucks but that's it. It is just having good instructions that matter, and parts. A fully waterproof high end Pixel device is not less "repairable" that a fairphone.
- capableweb 5y ago
  iFixit gives the various Pixel phones between 4-6 in "Repairability", while Fairphones gets between 7-10 (7 to Fairphone 1, 10 to Fairphone #2 and #3). Are you saying that iFixit knows less about repairability than you? They seem to directly disagree with your statement that Pixel devices are not less "repariable" than a Fairphone. You can check the scores here yourself: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability Edit: Going deeper, apparently France is running a Repairability index as well, you can check how Fairphone is doing against Pixel there too: https://www.indicereparabilite.fr/ https://www.indicereparabilite.fr/ (spoiler: Pixel gets 6.3 while Fairphone gets 8.7 [out of 10])
- fsh 5y ago
  I have a Pixel 3a whose battery is slowly starting to degrade after two years of use (~80% capacity left). Unfortunately, changing the battery requires removing the glued-in screen, which is quite fiddly and has the danger of cracking the OLED in the process [1]. If I had bought a Fairphone 3 instead, I could simply buy a spare battery for 30€ and change it in a few seconds. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+3a+Battery+Replacement/124322 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+3a+Battery+Replace...
ramesh31 5y ago
Too bad it's Android. The mobile OS duopoly is killing all posibility of true innovation in smartphones.
- lucideer 5y ago
  True but the Fairphone company's core focus has been firmly on hardware & manufacturing sustainability and ethics, which I do respect. Ideally I'd like open source, sustainable, ethical hardware along with an open source, user-controlled independent OS, but in today's world, 2 out of 4 ain't bad. And I can understand one company not wanting to spread their priorities too thinly trying to solve every problem at once.
- asddubs 5y ago
  I do somewhat agree but there's only so many niches you can cater to at once before you doom your product to obscurity and failure
- rameshs 5y ago
  How is this duopoly when atleast in Android the manufacturer can offer customisation as they see fit?
- Tepix 5y ago
  Looking at the struggles of Pinephone and Librem 5 and the various Linux flavours available for them it seems to be a really difficult problem to get something that has a good UI, a good feature set, is fast, stable and has good power management.
- joshuajill 5y ago
  I expect /e/OS and LineageOS ROM's will be released soon, around the time they start shipping. They work closely with both. Still Android, but AOSP based. Edit. confirmed it should be shipped with /e/Os as a choice. https://twitter.com/deivei/status/1443579458531692561 https://twitter.com/deivei/status/1443579458531692561
alias_neo 5y ago
Anyone know what this Snapdragon 750 performance would be like compared to my OnePlus 8 Pro? I'd like to move to a more sustainable phone (I smashed the screen of the OP8P in the first week) but I suspect my OP8P will still outperform the Fairphone 4 by the time a launch unit 5 year warranty is up?
- aembleton 5y ago
  The OnePlus 8 Pro uses a Snapdragon 865. This comparison makes it seems like it would be a drop in performance, especially if you game. https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-865-vs-qualcomm-snapdragon-750g https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-86...
  - alias_neo 5y ago
    Thanks, that's useful, it's a pretty huge difference.
maep 5y ago
Too bad they are chasing all the bad trends (notch, no audio jack, camera bump, flatness over battery size, growing size). That pretty much kills it for me. Especially the audio jack is a hard sell when their mission statement is sustainability.
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  Is wireless audio inherently less sustainable?
  - up6w6 5y ago
    If you consider that earphone in general are not that much durable and a wireless earphone has more environmental impact to be produced (battery, bluetooth components) while the old audio jack is simpler and still a standard.
  - antisol 5y ago
    yes. It includes batteries.
  - squarefoot 5y ago
    It's worse in every possible way: worse quality (improved recently, still worse), expensive, includes non replaceable batteries, therefore requires charging and increases pollution when the user is forced to ditch the phones just because the batteries died.
    - ricardobeat 5y ago
      My first wireless headphones are 5 years old and not showing any noticeable battery degradation. If they die, they’ll be sent in for recycling. Assuming the battery gets recycled, I don’t see a significant difference other than the lack of copper wiring.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    most bluetooth headphones i’ve seen will be useless in a few years once the non-replaceable battery wears out wired headphones can literally last decades
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
Mobile phone technology is still progressing too fast to be stuck with a device for 5 years. For example, I used to think that 120hz screens were a meme until I bought one myself and immediately saw the difference.
- yabones 5y ago
  Speak for yourself. I've happily been using an iPhone SE since 2016, and will probably keep it until iOS 15 is EoL. It turns out, I just haven't added any new use cases to my phone since around 2013.
  - MomoXenosaga 5y ago
    I don't think I'm speaking for myself looking at the industry. Most people do indeed replace their phones much faster than 5 years. Instead of trying to make phones last longer I think recycling is the better option.
    - Antipode 5y ago
      For most waste, recycling isn't the magic bullet many people have been led to believe it is. I do wonder about the viability of designing electronics to be easier to recycle, though.
    - joshuajill 5y ago
      That's part of the balance they're trying to strike I believe. They are trying to gather more people around the concept of good enough tech and durability. Agree recycling is not ideal, there is always energy and material loss in the process. Tech must slow down in my opinion.
- bigpeopleareold 5y ago
  I'll stick with one for 10 years if I can. Smartphones are just not that interesting other than the fact they seem to become more and more important to live in these times. If anything, that's where FP shines; it's just good enough to not worry too much over.
martin_henk 5y ago
at this point, an iphone up to v8 seems most sustainable. but of course no one knows how long an 8 or even 13 will be updated or receive service. i would still like an alternative option that is a) user reparable b) can be updated on an open source/non corporate basis
joshuajill 5y ago
Disappoint with the HN community reading the comments here. Sure FF is not perfect, but they are actually changing how the industry is working and deserve a lot of support. They are changing how mining is done, how workers are treated and are attempting the change the rules on planned obsolescence. And they are actually getting some advance on all these areas.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > attempting the change the rules on planned obsolescence What rules are there at the moment on planned obsolescence? I don't think there are any to change?
  - grumpyprole 5y ago
    We don't have enough laws to protect consumers and the environment. Such laws actually help businesses that do want to do the right thing remain competitive. So how about a law that guarantees security updates for at least 5 years, so these phones don't become e-waste before their time? Or a law for user serviceable battery replacement?
  - joshuajill 5y ago
    Exactly, the EU has been working on that for a while, I believe some rules have been created recently.
- joshuajill 5y ago
  Oh and supporting the Open Source community, empowering users to own their OS.
- crisdux 5y ago
  I am equally disappointed when I read comments like yours that demand some sort of ideological purity and agreement. How selfish. Meta comments that disparage the HN community are so weird. This community is made up of a lot of different people with varying perspectives. We should celebrate its diversity.
badjeans 5y ago
> Surprisingly, there isn't a headphone jack, which seems like something Fairphone's demographic would really have wanted. Wired headphones last indefinitely, while Bluetooth buds turn into garbage after a few years when the batteries die. Every wired headphones I've had started to break down after a year or so, including ones with a detachable cable. BT headphones are much more reliable. If you buy something like the Sony's you can probably get replacement batteries.
- HelixEndeavor 5y ago
  Sounds like you've been getting cheap headphones. Bluetooth headphones are inherently less reliable due to far more points of failure. You say you can "probably" get replacement batteries but we've already seen that it's damn near impossible to source the tiny batteries for things like true wireless earbuds.
  - chrisseaton 5y ago
    > Bluetooth headphones are inherently less reliable due to far more points of failure. Really? They seem to have less points of failure to me - they're fully encapsulated (usually glued shut) and don't have to physically interface with anything less than simple metal charging pads. Compared to physically being shoved into something and yanked out and a cable that is being manipulated.
    - L_226 5y ago
      software is a point of failure :) also, batteries
    - Reubachi 5y ago
      Software, batteries, and the bluetooth comm protocol are three giant points of failure. An example, I can no longer use my car's (2012) bluetooth with any modern device. At least, it is horribally laggy and doesn't display data, when it works. Points of failure on wired buds are the cord and connector construction and materials. So you can generally know the "more you spend", it's likely being put into the construction (for reputable brands).
ricardobeat 5y ago
The headline should be the aluminum body which finally puts it on par with flagship phones on environmental footprint. I wonder if they also managed to remove the remaining plastic from the packaging as Apple has done.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  The environmental impact of producing aluminum is probably higher than plastic unless that aluminum gets recycled after you're done with it.
  - LeifCarrotson 5y ago
    Energetically, yes, producing aluminum metal from bauxite/aluminum oxide is very difficult, requiring tons of heat. If this energy is sourced from coal power plants, it does emit something like 12 kg CO2 per kg aluminum. However, there's no reason that the electricity has to come from fossil fuels. Aluminum refineries are an incredibly useful base load, able to turn up the heaters when energy is available and inexpensive, but to reduce the load when energy is less available and more expensive. This is highly compatible with renewable energy sources, providing a useful sink for excess capacity. Aluminum production can and will continue well after fossil fuel energy sources are phased out, at which point it will have a lower environmental impact. Also, aluminum is extremely easy and cost-effective to recycle.
    - shkkmo 5y ago
      It is quite true that Aluminum could (and hopefully one day will) be more environmentally friendly that plastic. If more than 1/3 of the aluminum we produce in the US came from recycling and/or the majority of energy used in primary aluminum production came from renewable sources, then aluminum would be a big win. Unfortunately, I don't think we are there yet.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Aluminium is the second most recycled material on the planet, after asphalt, if I remember correctly. Unlike plastics, metals are recycleable wirh 100% efffectiveness, the later product is not lesser or worse quality.
londgine 5y ago
I didn't realise that the 4 came out [0], cool. However, there are several problems with it (and unfortunately most modern flagships have them also). The phone is huge, 6.3" + bezel. If you look at the picture of the woman holding the phone it looks like the phone is either about to fall out, or the phone is simply photo-shopped on. Another issue is that the camera sticks out the back. If this camera falls on its back, the camera is the first thing that will be hit. That is the absolutely worst place to have it hit first. The price is quite expensive ($751.47), but if the phone lasts as long as they claim, then that shouldn't be that big of an issue. [0] https://shop.fairphone.com/en/buy-fairphone-4 https://shop.fairphone.com/en/buy-fairphone-4
- teekert 5y ago
  You mean it has a camera island like every other smartphone out there nowadays? As for the price, dude, how can you even complain about that with a project like this, don't even mention it. I think it is wonderful. Less expensive than an iPhone 12 mini and it just feels so good + you can experiment with OSes.
squarefoot 5y ago
There's no mention of any Open Source OS, it lacks the analog audio jack (the USBC adapter prevents charging during use, so it's not a substitute), and also lacks FM radio, which would have cost pennies to add. I see it as fairly big step backwards. Not interested.
- joshuajill 5y ago
  Agree with the jack part, although the work around seems ok for me. They work pretty close with /e/ OS and LineageOS, so I expect different ROM's will be available more around the time they start shipping. (it's still in pre sale)
- joshuajill 5y ago
  Here: they said they'll be able to ship it with /e/os installed. https://twitter.com/deivei/status/1443579458531692561 https://twitter.com/deivei/status/1443579458531692561
nanna 5y ago
Extremely happy with my Fairphone 3. Look forward to five more years with it before buying another one.
- gpvos 5y ago
  Pretty happy with my FP2. Looks like I'll skip the FP3.
blendergeek 5y ago
> Updating an Android device without chipset-vendor support is unprecedented, but Fairphone still spent the money and partnered with the LineageOS community to make it happen. I know it is unprecedented . . . for a manufacturer to endorse releasing Android versions without chipset support. But, seriously, LineageOS does this all the time with their supported devices.
- karyon 5y ago
  LineageOS does not have certification (i.e. does not meet Google's quality standards) to install the Google applications. Manufacturers who want to ship with Google Apps have to take everything up a notch to get the certification, which is a huge amount of work (on top of everything that LineageOS and the likes are doing).
solarkraft 5y ago
No headphone jack? 555-COME-ON-NOW. That said I really like Fairphone and its principles, but I wonder why they never partnered with the Linux on phone community.
- Reubachi 5y ago
  because that is an open source initiative(they can't exxacerbate development costs, and because it would be a barrier of adoption to their target base: rich, "eco" conscious people.
littlestymaar 5y ago
Having bought a Fairphone 2[1], I will never buy a Fairphone product anymore. And I'm not a difficult customer here: I didn't mind paying twice the price, or software issues in their custom Android version. I'm only moderately annoyed having a proximity sensor that keeps keeps needing a reset, a phone that keeps rebooting for no reasons or a pretty bad power management (going from 15% to no-battery in less than a minute). They are a small company and have limited manpower, I can totally understand that. What I'm really pissed off it them not fulfilling their promises. They sold me a modular phone, with the promise of hardware upgrades and maintenance. They sold me a “PC”-like smartphone, where there's no frequent release of new models but a continuously upgrade-able phone. But they didn't even try to deliver, and they didn't apologize. [1]: in 2016, and I'm still using it btw, even if it's far from good at this point, because it “works” and I'm still pretty conscious about the environmental impact of smartphones.
- autosharp 5y ago
  Same here. Bought one on the promise of being able to purchase spare parts. 18 months later the battery is dead and I cannot buy a new one, ever again. That is worse than a regular Samsung on the principal measure they claim to be good at. If there should be just one spare part you sell, it should be the battery. Alas.
  - McDev 5y ago
    I came across https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts, seems like they do sell spare batteries for all versions
    - autosharp 5y ago
      When I needed it for fairphone 2, many years ago, they said they would never sell that battery again.
  - joshuajill 5y ago
    They're still available at the store I don't get what you're complaining about.
m3kw9 5y ago
Providing updates isn’t too hard, but are those updates significant or just security patches? That’s what people care about.
Paianni 5y ago
We would have saved a lot of waste if societies skipped smartphones altogether. The world is now littered with basic phones that have either been sent to landfill or abandoned, besides all the smartphones with obsolete 'smart' functions.
ramesh31 5y ago
I always reccomend the gen 1 iPhone SE to anyone that wants a "modular" phone. No, you can't upgrade the parts, but you can replace them when something breaks. I'm going on 5 years now with mine, and I've replaced nearly every component but the main board. I've replaced the lightning connector, main screen, main camera, headphone jack (remember those?), battery twice, even the SIM card slot. Everything is just screwed down (no glue) and replaceable with a $7 toolkit from Amazon. Parts are dirt cheap and readily available on eBay. And it's still getting the latest OS security updates 5 years later.
fouric 5y ago
There are a lot of comments about technical issues with previous iterations of the Fairphone - but, to be Fair, you can also find a lot of comments about technical issues with any technology (even if it's open-source!) on the internet. What would be very helpful, and consistent with the ethos of the Fairphone organization (or, at least, what I think it is) would be to provide actual repair data. "n% of devices have had to be replaced entirely, m% of devices have had a technical issues requiring a hardware fix, here's the number of repair requests made per phone generation", etc. I like the idea of a Fairphone, but I don't want to buy a product that is going not do the thing that it's supposed to, but I also don't want to avoid buying a product that is generally reliable just because I read comments entirely from the users whose devices broke.

222 points by iechoz6H 5y ago

kiba 5y ago

But is a fairphone something I can buy in the US?

Vinnl 5y ago
Only EU and the UK at this time it seems.

LeonaWilson 5y ago

The Best And Easiest Ways To Protect Yourself From Hackers- https://www.hackerslist.co/the-best-and-easiest-ways-to-protect-yourself-from-hackers/ https://www.hackerslist.co/the-best-and-easiest-ways-to-prot...

warrenmiller 5y ago

whats the deal with the 3 camera holes and only 2 cameras? is that future proofing?

glfharris 5y ago
The article says its for a autofocus system, as well as colour and time of flight sensors.

KingOfCoders 5y ago

I would have bought a Fairphone last year instead of a Realme, when the camera wasn't ten years behind :-( Is this state of the art? (Not very fancy just a state of the art sensor and optics).

intricatedetail 5y ago

Is it really repairable? I mean if a chip in the core module fails, can you buy just the chip and replace it or you need a whole new module? If the latter, then what makes it different from any other phone?

styx31 5y ago
It's all other parts: display (90€), camera (50€), battery (30€), etc. The typical pieces which are exposed to the outside and can suffer damages. See: https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts?phone_type=4 https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts?phone_type=4
- criddell 5y ago
  Why is the display so expensive? I just had the display in an iPhone replaced and it was $60.
  - ygra 5y ago
    I guess in a typical phone the display is basically a unit that is comprised of the glass, the actual display, and the digitizer sandwiched and glued together; that makes it more than a single component already. And the price difference between the iPhone and the Fairphone one might mostly be demand. There's probably a lot more iPhone display units out there than even Fairphones of all generations.
  - joshuajill 5y ago
    It's more expensive most likely because they're not outsourcing environmental and human rights costs. Also, they are not gathering and selling your data unlike many others.
    - intricatedetail 5y ago
      As I understand it is mostly made in China so it's isn't true.
      - lucideer 5y ago
        They are outsourcing but they're specifically negotiating contracts that guarantee living wages, ethical worker conditions and ethically sourced raw materials, so that's gonna be factored into costs. See: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/12/18/living-wage/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/2020/12/18/living-wage/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/category/good-working-conditions/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/category/good-working-condition...

iechoz6H 5y ago

I have a Fairphone 3+, bought about 6 weeks ago. I might have waited if I'd know this was on the horizon. I flashed mine with /e/ OS (WTF's with that name?) and it has been fantastic. My only complaint is the fingerprint sensor is a little clunky.

tannhaeuser 5y ago
That's what I'm about to do when my iPhone will pass away eventually (but probably from eSolutions directly). Though I really want my phone to be small, and rather don't want the Predator-like optical aiming device; just a basic up-to-date camera would be fine with me.
keraf 5y ago
Have the FP3+ for about 6 months with /e/OS as well, very happy with it until the USB-C port stopped working. I can either ship the entire phone back for repair (ordered from fairphone.com) or buy the bottom module and replace it myself. I prefer the latter as it's one of the reasons I bought the phone for. Unfortunately that part is currently out of stock... Looking at forums, it seems to be a common issue.
Elte 5y ago
Tip: Scotch tape. I was immensely frustrated with the fingerprint sensor on my FP3, which would only register in perfect conditions, so I had to type my password half the time. Somewhere online I read the tip to put a piece of scotch tape over it, which sounded utterly ridiculous, but at the same time so straightforward and harmless that I tried. I have no idea why it works, but I'm only typing my password whenever the "extra security" counter kicks in now.
johnchristopher 5y ago
FWIW, the sensor works flawlessly on mine. Maybe how the fingerprint is recorded matters ? I moved my finger slightly between each take in the calibration process.

MerelyMortal 5y ago

Previous discussion that's 26 minutes older and links to Fairphone's website instead of an article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28705037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28705037

kmfrk 5y ago

I looked into getting one when my old iPhone had to be replaced, and the main complaint seemed to be how far behind the firmware updates were. It's a hard thing to scale for, but I hope they figure out the bottleneck to adoption of an otherwise cool idea.

dev_snd 5y ago

I used to have a Fairphone 2, but it had multiple problems. A partially working touchscreen, a malfunctioning headphone jack and then a bad battery. and the shipment of replacement parts were so slow that I finally had to buy a second, cheaper phone while waiting for the new parts, which isn't really part of fairphones mission statement. Next next phone I bought still works today, mich longer than the 1.5 Fairphones I had bought before. Whats sad about that experience, is that it made me sceptical. I now need to wait for the new model to prove reliable in reviews before I'd buy it, but by that time the mid-tier hardware would be completely outdated alteady. In essence it'll take years for them to gain my trust back. Still i hope that products like this or the framework laptop take off.

Vinnl 5y ago
I'm still on my Fairphone 2, but indeed it has a number of issues. Most of those are caused by it being relatively fragile due to being repairable without tools, which I've demoed a bit too often to people. My girlfriend has a Fairphone 3, which is much better in this regard: while the tools-free repairability is a nice gimmic, the 3 requires a standard screwdriver. That's slightly more work, but perfectly fine for something that is used (hopefully) so rarely, and as a result, it's a lot more stable than mine is. Which is to say: sure I'm disappointed, but it's also part of the risk when buying a company's second phone, and the first they designed themselves. When the issues with my 2 become too much, it looks like I'll be getting a Fairphone 4. But first let's see how long I can make this one last.
rvense 5y ago
I know lots of people had issues with their FP2, but I have to say I used mine for just under five years (before it stopped booting). I'll give that it didn't always feel reliable (random reboots etc), but it worked well enough. I bought an FP3 earlier in the year and it's been very decent so far. But I'm extremely disappointed by the lack of the headphone jack in this new one, and I think I'm going to go write an angry e-mail to them now.
- hkt 5y ago
  I'm the same about FP3: I'm writing this reply on one, running e/OS/ with no googly stuff on. I'm delighted with it so far. I intend to keep this as long as humanly possible. I'll take a new phone on my 40th birthday (I'm 32)

DrBenCarson 5y ago

To play devil’s advocate, my iPhone has already achieved 6y of updates and why would I pre-pay for fixes in the form of a warranty? (Right to repair issues aside, and I don’t say that lightly, just don’t think it changes the answer for the avg consumer)

vosper 5y ago
And Apple are still shipping security updates for iOS 12 (last one a few weeks ago), so even the 8 year old iPhone 5s is still getting updated.
busymom0 5y ago
Same here. While I am not a fan of Apple because of the recent privacy debacle, my iPhone 6S is still working from 2014. I just updated it to the latest iOS 15 last night too. Other than the battery, everything else works fine in it.
- FemmeAndroid 5y ago
  If you haven't done it yet do consider a battery replacement from Apple. It's $49 for a 6S, and it made a huge difference for me after about five years with the same phone. When I did it, I believe the replacement was able to be done in store while I waited. https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-power https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-powe...
  - busymom0 5y ago
    I have been considering doing it myself using iFixit or cheaper alternative. I am in Canada so after taxes and CAD, it comes close to $90 I think.

alexandrerond 5y ago

I'm fully onboard with fair sourcing of materials etc. But what is with "repairability" as an excuse to make fragile, inferior phones? I had a pixel 3 and I swapped camera, microphones, usb c port. The iFixit kit needed for this costs a few bucks but that's it. It is just having good instructions that matter, and parts. A fully waterproof high end Pixel device is not less "repairable" that a fairphone.

capableweb 5y ago
iFixit gives the various Pixel phones between 4-6 in "Repairability", while Fairphones gets between 7-10 (7 to Fairphone 1, 10 to Fairphone #2 and #3). Are you saying that iFixit knows less about repairability than you? They seem to directly disagree with your statement that Pixel devices are not less "repariable" than a Fairphone. You can check the scores here yourself: https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability https://www.ifixit.com/smartphone-repairability Edit: Going deeper, apparently France is running a Repairability index as well, you can check how Fairphone is doing against Pixel there too: https://www.indicereparabilite.fr/ https://www.indicereparabilite.fr/ (spoiler: Pixel gets 6.3 while Fairphone gets 8.7 [out of 10])
fsh 5y ago
I have a Pixel 3a whose battery is slowly starting to degrade after two years of use (~80% capacity left). Unfortunately, changing the battery requires removing the glued-in screen, which is quite fiddly and has the danger of cracking the OLED in the process [1]. If I had bought a Fairphone 3 instead, I could simply buy a spare battery for 30€ and change it in a few seconds. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+3a+Battery+Replacement/124322 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Google+Pixel+3a+Battery+Replace...

ramesh31 5y ago

Too bad it's Android. The mobile OS duopoly is killing all posibility of true innovation in smartphones.

lucideer 5y ago
True but the Fairphone company's core focus has been firmly on hardware & manufacturing sustainability and ethics, which I do respect. Ideally I'd like open source, sustainable, ethical hardware along with an open source, user-controlled independent OS, but in today's world, 2 out of 4 ain't bad. And I can understand one company not wanting to spread their priorities too thinly trying to solve every problem at once.
asddubs 5y ago
I do somewhat agree but there's only so many niches you can cater to at once before you doom your product to obscurity and failure
rameshs 5y ago
How is this duopoly when atleast in Android the manufacturer can offer customisation as they see fit?
Tepix 5y ago
Looking at the struggles of Pinephone and Librem 5 and the various Linux flavours available for them it seems to be a really difficult problem to get something that has a good UI, a good feature set, is fast, stable and has good power management.
joshuajill 5y ago
I expect /e/OS and LineageOS ROM's will be released soon, around the time they start shipping. They work closely with both. Still Android, but AOSP based. Edit. confirmed it should be shipped with /e/Os as a choice. https://twitter.com/deivei/status/1443579458531692561 https://twitter.com/deivei/status/1443579458531692561

alias_neo 5y ago

Anyone know what this Snapdragon 750 performance would be like compared to my OnePlus 8 Pro? I'd like to move to a more sustainable phone (I smashed the screen of the OP8P in the first week) but I suspect my OP8P will still outperform the Fairphone 4 by the time a launch unit 5 year warranty is up?

aembleton 5y ago
The OnePlus 8 Pro uses a Snapdragon 865. This comparison makes it seems like it would be a drop in performance, especially if you game. https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-865-vs-qualcomm-snapdragon-750g https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-compare/qualcomm-snapdragon-86...
- alias_neo 5y ago
  Thanks, that's useful, it's a pretty huge difference.

maep 5y ago

Too bad they are chasing all the bad trends (notch, no audio jack, camera bump, flatness over battery size, growing size). That pretty much kills it for me. Especially the audio jack is a hard sell when their mission statement is sustainability.

ricardobeat 5y ago
Is wireless audio inherently less sustainable?
- up6w6 5y ago
  If you consider that earphone in general are not that much durable and a wireless earphone has more environmental impact to be produced (battery, bluetooth components) while the old audio jack is simpler and still a standard.
- antisol 5y ago
  yes. It includes batteries.
- squarefoot 5y ago
  It's worse in every possible way: worse quality (improved recently, still worse), expensive, includes non replaceable batteries, therefore requires charging and increases pollution when the user is forced to ditch the phones just because the batteries died.
  - ricardobeat 5y ago
    My first wireless headphones are 5 years old and not showing any noticeable battery degradation. If they die, they’ll be sent in for recycling. Assuming the battery gets recycled, I don’t see a significant difference other than the lack of copper wiring.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  most bluetooth headphones i’ve seen will be useless in a few years once the non-replaceable battery wears out wired headphones can literally last decades

MomoXenosaga 5y ago

Mobile phone technology is still progressing too fast to be stuck with a device for 5 years. For example, I used to think that 120hz screens were a meme until I bought one myself and immediately saw the difference.

yabones 5y ago
Speak for yourself. I've happily been using an iPhone SE since 2016, and will probably keep it until iOS 15 is EoL. It turns out, I just haven't added any new use cases to my phone since around 2013.
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  I don't think I'm speaking for myself looking at the industry. Most people do indeed replace their phones much faster than 5 years. Instead of trying to make phones last longer I think recycling is the better option.
  - Antipode 5y ago
    For most waste, recycling isn't the magic bullet many people have been led to believe it is. I do wonder about the viability of designing electronics to be easier to recycle, though.
  - joshuajill 5y ago
    That's part of the balance they're trying to strike I believe. They are trying to gather more people around the concept of good enough tech and durability. Agree recycling is not ideal, there is always energy and material loss in the process. Tech must slow down in my opinion.
bigpeopleareold 5y ago
I'll stick with one for 10 years if I can. Smartphones are just not that interesting other than the fact they seem to become more and more important to live in these times. If anything, that's where FP shines; it's just good enough to not worry too much over.

martin_henk 5y ago

at this point, an iphone up to v8 seems most sustainable. but of course no one knows how long an 8 or even 13 will be updated or receive service. i would still like an alternative option that is a) user reparable b) can be updated on an open source/non corporate basis

joshuajill 5y ago

Disappoint with the HN community reading the comments here. Sure FF is not perfect, but they are actually changing how the industry is working and deserve a lot of support. They are changing how mining is done, how workers are treated and are attempting the change the rules on planned obsolescence. And they are actually getting some advance on all these areas.

chrisseaton 5y ago
> attempting the change the rules on planned obsolescence What rules are there at the moment on planned obsolescence? I don't think there are any to change?
- grumpyprole 5y ago
  We don't have enough laws to protect consumers and the environment. Such laws actually help businesses that do want to do the right thing remain competitive. So how about a law that guarantees security updates for at least 5 years, so these phones don't become e-waste before their time? Or a law for user serviceable battery replacement?
- joshuajill 5y ago
  Exactly, the EU has been working on that for a while, I believe some rules have been created recently.
joshuajill 5y ago
Oh and supporting the Open Source community, empowering users to own their OS.
crisdux 5y ago
I am equally disappointed when I read comments like yours that demand some sort of ideological purity and agreement. How selfish. Meta comments that disparage the HN community are so weird. This community is made up of a lot of different people with varying perspectives. We should celebrate its diversity.

badjeans 5y ago

> Surprisingly, there isn't a headphone jack, which seems like something Fairphone's demographic would really have wanted. Wired headphones last indefinitely, while Bluetooth buds turn into garbage after a few years when the batteries die. Every wired headphones I've had started to break down after a year or so, including ones with a detachable cable. BT headphones are much more reliable. If you buy something like the Sony's you can probably get replacement batteries.

HelixEndeavor 5y ago
Sounds like you've been getting cheap headphones. Bluetooth headphones are inherently less reliable due to far more points of failure. You say you can "probably" get replacement batteries but we've already seen that it's damn near impossible to source the tiny batteries for things like true wireless earbuds.
- chrisseaton 5y ago
  > Bluetooth headphones are inherently less reliable due to far more points of failure. Really? They seem to have less points of failure to me - they're fully encapsulated (usually glued shut) and don't have to physically interface with anything less than simple metal charging pads. Compared to physically being shoved into something and yanked out and a cable that is being manipulated.
  - L_226 5y ago
    software is a point of failure :) also, batteries
  - Reubachi 5y ago
    Software, batteries, and the bluetooth comm protocol are three giant points of failure. An example, I can no longer use my car's (2012) bluetooth with any modern device. At least, it is horribally laggy and doesn't display data, when it works. Points of failure on wired buds are the cord and connector construction and materials. So you can generally know the "more you spend", it's likely being put into the construction (for reputable brands).

ricardobeat 5y ago

The headline should be the aluminum body which finally puts it on par with flagship phones on environmental footprint. I wonder if they also managed to remove the remaining plastic from the packaging as Apple has done.

shkkmo 5y ago
The environmental impact of producing aluminum is probably higher than plastic unless that aluminum gets recycled after you're done with it.
- LeifCarrotson 5y ago
  Energetically, yes, producing aluminum metal from bauxite/aluminum oxide is very difficult, requiring tons of heat. If this energy is sourced from coal power plants, it does emit something like 12 kg CO2 per kg aluminum. However, there's no reason that the electricity has to come from fossil fuels. Aluminum refineries are an incredibly useful base load, able to turn up the heaters when energy is available and inexpensive, but to reduce the load when energy is less available and more expensive. This is highly compatible with renewable energy sources, providing a useful sink for excess capacity. Aluminum production can and will continue well after fossil fuel energy sources are phased out, at which point it will have a lower environmental impact. Also, aluminum is extremely easy and cost-effective to recycle.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    It is quite true that Aluminum could (and hopefully one day will) be more environmentally friendly that plastic. If more than 1/3 of the aluminum we produce in the US came from recycling and/or the majority of energy used in primary aluminum production came from renewable sources, then aluminum would be a big win. Unfortunately, I don't think we are there yet.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Aluminium is the second most recycled material on the planet, after asphalt, if I remember correctly. Unlike plastics, metals are recycleable wirh 100% efffectiveness, the later product is not lesser or worse quality.

londgine 5y ago

I didn't realise that the 4 came out [0], cool. However, there are several problems with it (and unfortunately most modern flagships have them also). The phone is huge, 6.3" + bezel. If you look at the picture of the woman holding the phone it looks like the phone is either about to fall out, or the phone is simply photo-shopped on. Another issue is that the camera sticks out the back. If this camera falls on its back, the camera is the first thing that will be hit. That is the absolutely worst place to have it hit first. The price is quite expensive ($751.47), but if the phone lasts as long as they claim, then that shouldn't be that big of an issue. [0] https://shop.fairphone.com/en/buy-fairphone-4 https://shop.fairphone.com/en/buy-fairphone-4

teekert 5y ago
You mean it has a camera island like every other smartphone out there nowadays? As for the price, dude, how can you even complain about that with a project like this, don't even mention it. I think it is wonderful. Less expensive than an iPhone 12 mini and it just feels so good + you can experiment with OSes.

squarefoot 5y ago

There's no mention of any Open Source OS, it lacks the analog audio jack (the USBC adapter prevents charging during use, so it's not a substitute), and also lacks FM radio, which would have cost pennies to add. I see it as fairly big step backwards. Not interested.

joshuajill 5y ago
Agree with the jack part, although the work around seems ok for me. They work pretty close with /e/ OS and LineageOS, so I expect different ROM's will be available more around the time they start shipping. (it's still in pre sale)
joshuajill 5y ago
Here: they said they'll be able to ship it with /e/os installed. https://twitter.com/deivei/status/1443579458531692561 https://twitter.com/deivei/status/1443579458531692561

nanna 5y ago

Extremely happy with my Fairphone 3. Look forward to five more years with it before buying another one.

gpvos 5y ago
Pretty happy with my FP2. Looks like I'll skip the FP3.

blendergeek 5y ago

> Updating an Android device without chipset-vendor support is unprecedented, but Fairphone still spent the money and partnered with the LineageOS community to make it happen. I know it is unprecedented . . . for a manufacturer to endorse releasing Android versions without chipset support. But, seriously, LineageOS does this all the time with their supported devices.

karyon 5y ago
LineageOS does not have certification (i.e. does not meet Google's quality standards) to install the Google applications. Manufacturers who want to ship with Google Apps have to take everything up a notch to get the certification, which is a huge amount of work (on top of everything that LineageOS and the likes are doing).

solarkraft 5y ago

No headphone jack? 555-COME-ON-NOW. That said I really like Fairphone and its principles, but I wonder why they never partnered with the Linux on phone community.

Reubachi 5y ago
because that is an open source initiative(they can't exxacerbate development costs, and because it would be a barrier of adoption to their target base: rich, "eco" conscious people.

littlestymaar 5y ago

Having bought a Fairphone 2[1], I will never buy a Fairphone product anymore. And I'm not a difficult customer here: I didn't mind paying twice the price, or software issues in their custom Android version. I'm only moderately annoyed having a proximity sensor that keeps keeps needing a reset, a phone that keeps rebooting for no reasons or a pretty bad power management (going from 15% to no-battery in less than a minute). They are a small company and have limited manpower, I can totally understand that. What I'm really pissed off it them not fulfilling their promises. They sold me a modular phone, with the promise of hardware upgrades and maintenance. They sold me a “PC”-like smartphone, where there's no frequent release of new models but a continuously upgrade-able phone. But they didn't even try to deliver, and they didn't apologize. [1]: in 2016, and I'm still using it btw, even if it's far from good at this point, because it “works” and I'm still pretty conscious about the environmental impact of smartphones.

autosharp 5y ago
Same here. Bought one on the promise of being able to purchase spare parts. 18 months later the battery is dead and I cannot buy a new one, ever again. That is worse than a regular Samsung on the principal measure they claim to be good at. If there should be just one spare part you sell, it should be the battery. Alas.
- McDev 5y ago
  I came across https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts, seems like they do sell spare batteries for all versions
  - autosharp 5y ago
    When I needed it for fairphone 2, many years ago, they said they would never sell that battery again.
- joshuajill 5y ago
  They're still available at the store I don't get what you're complaining about.

m3kw9 5y ago

Providing updates isn’t too hard, but are those updates significant or just security patches? That’s what people care about.

Paianni 5y ago

We would have saved a lot of waste if societies skipped smartphones altogether. The world is now littered with basic phones that have either been sent to landfill or abandoned, besides all the smartphones with obsolete 'smart' functions.

ramesh31 5y ago

I always reccomend the gen 1 iPhone SE to anyone that wants a "modular" phone. No, you can't upgrade the parts, but you can replace them when something breaks. I'm going on 5 years now with mine, and I've replaced nearly every component but the main board. I've replaced the lightning connector, main screen, main camera, headphone jack (remember those?), battery twice, even the SIM card slot. Everything is just screwed down (no glue) and replaceable with a $7 toolkit from Amazon. Parts are dirt cheap and readily available on eBay. And it's still getting the latest OS security updates 5 years later.

fouric 5y ago

There are a lot of comments about technical issues with previous iterations of the Fairphone - but, to be Fair, you can also find a lot of comments about technical issues with any technology (even if it's open-source!) on the internet. What would be very helpful, and consistent with the ethos of the Fairphone organization (or, at least, what I think it is) would be to provide actual repair data. "n% of devices have had to be replaced entirely, m% of devices have had a technical issues requiring a hardware fix, here's the number of repair requests made per phone generation", etc. I like the idea of a Fairphone, but I don't want to buy a product that is going not do the thing that it's supposed to, but I also don't want to avoid buying a product that is generally reliable just because I read comments entirely from the users whose devices broke.