12 ms·

To Be a Field of Poppies: turning cadavers into compost

42 points by Petiver 5y ago

mmastrac 5y ago
0.75m^3 is a lot more than I expected. What happens with the Mercury in fillings? Or is that small enough that it no longer matters?
- jillesvangurp 5y ago
  Compared to all the other mercury we put back in the environment. We're talking a few grams here. And it doesn't do much damage while it's in your mouth either.
- takk309 5y ago
  Just thinking off the top of my head, bioaccumulation is a thing for sure but I don't know how much that it comes from soil. Mercury is naturally occurring in various minerals, although not directly biologically available. Mercury fillings are the same way, not readily available for uptake by your body.
  - culi 5y ago
    One interesting technology used in phytoremediation for accumulated heavy metals in soils: plants. Many plants are known as "hyperaccumulators" of various metals. Medicago sativa (Alfalfa) and Dittrichia viscosa (Yellow Fleabane) for example were found to be suitable for mercury phytoremidiation in a study[1]. Lichen and mosses may also be suitable for above-ground bioaccumulation of mercury[2] [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269629648_Hyperaccumulators_of_mercury_in_the_industrial_area_of_a_PVC_factory_in_Vlora_Albania https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269629648_Hyperaccu... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s43017-021-00146-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s43017-021-00146-y
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  Just guessing here, but: perhaps whatever prevents the mercury from entering a patient's bloodstream over the course of his life, will continue to work in the soil?
- rsynnott 5y ago
  Mercury fillings are fairly stable. That said, they're generally removed before cremation to avoid air pollution; possibly the same thing is done here.
- hactually 5y ago
  There's a UK study that says cremation of the dead is a source of mercury in the atmosphere... So yeah. Burial shrouds are my preference.
qwerty456127 5y ago
I always adored the idea of recycling dead flesh instead of preserving it the way it's commonly done but there is a danger to consider: prions - they can get into the soil, then into the plants and then into the animals.
- tw04 5y ago
  Seems like that should be pretty easy to stop. Birnessite can break down prions[1] and isn't particularly rare (assuming they don't already account for that). [1] https://news.wisc.edu/common-soil-mineral-degrades-the-nearly-indestructible-prion/ https://news.wisc.edu/common-soil-mineral-degrades-the-nearl...
  - Confiks 5y ago
    Beware of overly optimistic university press releases. It's hopeful, but certainly not a panacea. In fact, it's not clear if it will work at all. From your link: "The new study (...) was conducted on prions in solution in the laboratory". "The next step (...) is to mix the mineral with contaminated soil to see if it has the same effect". "I expect that its efficacy would be somewhat diminished in soil".
    - matthewdgreen 5y ago
      A similar conversation took place on HN a few months ago, and a few experts pointed out that a small mutation rendered sheep (I think) totally immune to some common prion disease that was universally fatal to sheep without the mutation. Without being able to find the citation at this moment, it made me much less concerned about the possibility of prions becoming an intractable problem that wipes out all complex life.
- robbrown451 5y ago
  This suggests composting (mostly) inactivates prions: https://cen.acs.org/articles/92/web/2014/05/Composting-Offer-Low-Cost-Way.html https://cen.acs.org/articles/92/web/2014/05/Composting-Offer...
- 5y ago
foobarian 5y ago
One similar possibility I was considering are FBI body farms where scientists study various properties of decomposition to be able to solve crimes better. At least I saw it on CSI. How cool would it be to be one of the corpses there :-)
- BrianOnHN 5y ago
  Super cool http://forensics.usf.edu/humandonation/ http://forensics.usf.edu/humandonation/
- smallerfish 5y ago
  If you're into that kind of thing, the Smithsonian runs a program whereby you can donate your body to it, and they'll use beetles to strip your flesh from the skeleton (which is what they want to study). I don't have any link to intake forms (probably findable if you dig hard enough) -- I know this only because my spouse worked at the Smithsonian a while back, and I knew researchers who were in the department that handled this.
TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
This is not new. In the Jewish religion, the dead are buried without any embalming, cremation, or anything else except a plain cotten or linen cloth. Even the casket is unadorned pine wood, without nails, metal, plastic, or paint. Wooden dowels are used to hold it together.
- markdown 5y ago
  What do they have against nails?
  - TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
    Nails do not decompose. The idea is to return to the earth nearly the same way you arrived out of it.
    - kyleee 5y ago
      Well of course they do, but maybe not on the timeline the religious adherents would prefer. Especially not if galvanized or coated in something to extend longevity
- Minor49er 5y ago
  This is already mentioned in the article: "No wonder embalming is considered desecration in some traditions, including among Muslims and Jews, who bury their dead in shrouds or simple coffins, sometimes without nails or fasteners, to avoid obstructing the decomposition process."
- mauvehaus 5y ago
  New England Casket was one of the major suppliers of Jewish coffins until they had an 8 alarm fire in 2019. Sadly, they've folded the tent in the wake of that. There's a good video about the company and their products made before the fire that's worth a watch. https://www.universalhub.com/2015/east-boston-where-jewish-caskets-come https://www.universalhub.com/2015/east-boston-where-jewish-c...
- deleted 5y ago
theodric 5y ago
This is what I want. Don't bury me on my farm, let me become part of it.
mauvehaus 5y ago
Becky Chambers explores the idea of composting humans in Record of a Spaceborn Few. It's the third book in her Wayfarer series, but I think it would work as a stand-alone novel if you aren't looking to read two books before you get to the one that discusses composting humans.

42 points by Petiver 5y ago

0.75m^3 is a lot more than I expected. What happens with the Mercury in fillings? Or is that small enough that it no longer matters?

jillesvangurp 5y ago
Compared to all the other mercury we put back in the environment. We're talking a few grams here. And it doesn't do much damage while it's in your mouth either.
takk309 5y ago
Just thinking off the top of my head, bioaccumulation is a thing for sure but I don't know how much that it comes from soil. Mercury is naturally occurring in various minerals, although not directly biologically available. Mercury fillings are the same way, not readily available for uptake by your body.
- culi 5y ago
  One interesting technology used in phytoremediation for accumulated heavy metals in soils: plants. Many plants are known as "hyperaccumulators" of various metals. Medicago sativa (Alfalfa) and Dittrichia viscosa (Yellow Fleabane) for example were found to be suitable for mercury phytoremidiation in a study[1]. Lichen and mosses may also be suitable for above-ground bioaccumulation of mercury[2] [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269629648_Hyperaccumulators_of_mercury_in_the_industrial_area_of_a_PVC_factory_in_Vlora_Albania https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269629648_Hyperaccu... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s43017-021-00146-y https://www.nature.com/articles/s43017-021-00146-y
CoastalCoder 5y ago
Just guessing here, but: perhaps whatever prevents the mercury from entering a patient's bloodstream over the course of his life, will continue to work in the soil?
rsynnott 5y ago
Mercury fillings are fairly stable. That said, they're generally removed before cremation to avoid air pollution; possibly the same thing is done here.
hactually 5y ago
There's a UK study that says cremation of the dead is a source of mercury in the atmosphere... So yeah. Burial shrouds are my preference.

qwerty456127 5y ago

I always adored the idea of recycling dead flesh instead of preserving it the way it's commonly done but there is a danger to consider: prions - they can get into the soil, then into the plants and then into the animals.

tw04 5y ago
Seems like that should be pretty easy to stop. Birnessite can break down prions[1] and isn't particularly rare (assuming they don't already account for that). [1] https://news.wisc.edu/common-soil-mineral-degrades-the-nearly-indestructible-prion/ https://news.wisc.edu/common-soil-mineral-degrades-the-nearl...
- Confiks 5y ago
  Beware of overly optimistic university press releases. It's hopeful, but certainly not a panacea. In fact, it's not clear if it will work at all. From your link: "The new study (...) was conducted on prions in solution in the laboratory". "The next step (...) is to mix the mineral with contaminated soil to see if it has the same effect". "I expect that its efficacy would be somewhat diminished in soil".
  - matthewdgreen 5y ago
    A similar conversation took place on HN a few months ago, and a few experts pointed out that a small mutation rendered sheep (I think) totally immune to some common prion disease that was universally fatal to sheep without the mutation. Without being able to find the citation at this moment, it made me much less concerned about the possibility of prions becoming an intractable problem that wipes out all complex life.
robbrown451 5y ago
This suggests composting (mostly) inactivates prions: https://cen.acs.org/articles/92/web/2014/05/Composting-Offer-Low-Cost-Way.html https://cen.acs.org/articles/92/web/2014/05/Composting-Offer...
5y ago

foobarian 5y ago

One similar possibility I was considering are FBI body farms where scientists study various properties of decomposition to be able to solve crimes better. At least I saw it on CSI. How cool would it be to be one of the corpses there :-)

BrianOnHN 5y ago
Super cool http://forensics.usf.edu/humandonation/ http://forensics.usf.edu/humandonation/
smallerfish 5y ago
If you're into that kind of thing, the Smithsonian runs a program whereby you can donate your body to it, and they'll use beetles to strip your flesh from the skeleton (which is what they want to study). I don't have any link to intake forms (probably findable if you dig hard enough) -- I know this only because my spouse worked at the Smithsonian a while back, and I knew researchers who were in the department that handled this.

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago

This is not new. In the Jewish religion, the dead are buried without any embalming, cremation, or anything else except a plain cotten or linen cloth. Even the casket is unadorned pine wood, without nails, metal, plastic, or paint. Wooden dowels are used to hold it together.

markdown 5y ago
What do they have against nails?
- TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
  Nails do not decompose. The idea is to return to the earth nearly the same way you arrived out of it.
  - kyleee 5y ago
    Well of course they do, but maybe not on the timeline the religious adherents would prefer. Especially not if galvanized or coated in something to extend longevity
Minor49er 5y ago
This is already mentioned in the article: "No wonder embalming is considered desecration in some traditions, including among Muslims and Jews, who bury their dead in shrouds or simple coffins, sometimes without nails or fasteners, to avoid obstructing the decomposition process."
mauvehaus 5y ago
New England Casket was one of the major suppliers of Jewish coffins until they had an 8 alarm fire in 2019. Sadly, they've folded the tent in the wake of that. There's a good video about the company and their products made before the fire that's worth a watch. https://www.universalhub.com/2015/east-boston-where-jewish-caskets-come https://www.universalhub.com/2015/east-boston-where-jewish-c...
deleted 5y ago

theodric 5y ago

This is what I want. Don't bury me on my farm, let me become part of it.

mauvehaus 5y ago

Becky Chambers explores the idea of composting humans in Record of a Spaceborn Few. It's the third book in her Wayfarer series, but I think it would work as a stand-alone novel if you aren't looking to read two books before you get to the one that discusses composting humans.