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>Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation Yeah. Don't do shit. Let the stupid run its course. Trying to combat disinformation i

>Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation Yeah. Don't do shit. Let the stupid run its course. Trying to combat disinformation is like bombing villages in hope of hitting an ammo dump. The collateral damage is more damaging than ignoring the problem. Why do we always have to be Doing Something(TM)?

toomuchtodo 5y ago
You're arguing to let low information or critical thinking challenged people die because of the actions of others (whether those actions are in good faith or not is immaterial). If Youtube decides it wants to take action to promote the public welfare, that's their right as a business. "Doing Something" is usually harm reduction within the framework of law and public policy, and there's a lot of harm out there, hence the continual debate over a) should something be done? and b) what can be done?
strgcmc 5y ago
Imagine this attitude applied to climate change. Letting the stupid runs its course and choosing inaction, will lead to disastrous warming outcomes. So, maybe there are situations where doing nothing is okay, but I don't think very large scale problems that require coordinated large scale action over long time scales to address, like global pandemics or mitigating the impacts of man made climate change, are the right situations for that kind of approach. Too many thousands/millions will die, too many billions/trillions of dollars of damage will be done, via inaction. Of course, it all comes down to whether you can stomach the cost of inaction, because maybe you don't think the impacts are all that bad. I don't have an answer to that, if two parties fundamentally disagree about what the cost of impact will be or whether that cost is acceptable (e.g. many folks in the US apparently think 600k+ COVID deaths in the US isn't a big deal, and wasn't worth the interventions applied to mitigate it to that level).
- endisneigh 5y ago
  I don’t see the connection
- mlindner 5y ago
  The problem with climate change is that the average person can't see the effects until long past the point when the problem can be easily solved. It's not at all comparable to social media.
- tomp 5y ago
  > Imagine this attitude applied to climate change. Letting the stupid runs its course and choosing inaction, will lead to disastrous warming outcomes. This is the same situation as climate change. Instead of doing sensible things, we banned plastic straws! (Now paper straws come in plastic packaging...). Or the situation that UK and Germany find themselves in (having invested in stupid but "green" solutions).
  - dekerta 5y ago
    I didn't realise that a few regions banning plastic straws is literally the only thing the entire planet has done to combat climate change
    - mbg721 5y ago
      Not at all, we also shipped our garbage halfway across the world while pretending we were recycling; and we turned the taps off while we were brushing our teeth.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Funny that you mention that since this is a real problem with combating climate change. You need to focus on the meat of the problem, not grasping at (plastic) straws (sensible policy, but not conductive to a solution regarding this case).
Espressosaurus 5y ago
Don't do shit is how you turn into 4chan. And even 4chan has moderation.
- automatic6131 5y ago
  "like 4chan" is the godwin's law of social media moderation
  - Espressosaurus 5y ago
    It is a very public example of the result of limited moderation. Free speech advocates advocating for absolutism in free speech need a counterargument if they're going to go down that road. In my experience, aggressive moderation, whether by the community or by admins, is the only way to keep a public community from turning into a cesspool, so if you're arguing for no moderation you better have a solution for what that actually entails.
    - sayonaraman 5y ago
      What’s wrong with 4chan? I for one think it’s awesome, one of the few outlets that haven’t gave in to censorship. I can give you a counterexample of Reddit that turned into cesspool with (and may be because of) excessive moderation. Just check their front page with posts celebrating people dying of Covid https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/
      - popcube 5y ago
        they had done a lot of debate at there, about whether this behaviour is acceptable. I just want to direct that the original purpose of this forums is try warn people what is the result of choice.
      - lovich 5y ago
        That’s some weasel wording with “(and may be because of)”. Also if you want posts of people celebrating death just stroll over into /b and mention anything to do with minorities and/or genocides. /pol is not the only containment board or issue with 4chan
valeness 5y ago
> "Let stupid run it's course" 4.5 Million Deaths Later...
- hef19898 5y ago
  Not all of which were part of the stupid category...
  - goatlover 5y ago
    But some are. Is 10% of those deaths worth social media platforms not censoring false claims about vaccines and masks?
    - pigeonhole123 5y ago
      Should they censor that they don’t work or they they work? Both were official policy at one time in 2020
papito 5y ago
As people already mentioned here, try running a free-for-all moderation-free discussion board and see what happens. Back in the day, the Internet was full of HTML discussion boards just like this one, and idiots were banned with no questions asked. It was beautiful, and no one complained. This site has moderation, no one is complaining. YouTube is a "person" - legally now, but somehow they don't have the responsibility to be a good citizen? The fact that allegedly smart people on HN use the term "censorship" in the context of non-government control is pretty shocking. You don't know censorship. "Censorship" has absolutely nothing to do with it. A private company can allow/disallow whatever content they f---ing please, and the Wild West capitalists on this board should be the first ones to support this move. Who is going to force them? The government? Oh, hello.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > Back in the day, the Internet was full of HTML discussion boards just like this one, and idiots were banned with no questions asked. It was beautiful, and no one complained. Back in the day, the Internet wasn't dominated by Facebook and Google.
smnrchrds 5y ago
In Alberta, the <20% of individuals who remain unvaccinated make up >90% of ICU admissions. ICUs are so full surgeries are being postponed, resources are being diverted to COVID ICUs, and they may have to start triaging ICU patients soon because of the lack of capacity, all of which affects not only the unvaccinated but everyone needing medical care in the province. Letting the situation run its course will kill and has killed way more than just the anti-vax.
- refurb 5y ago
  The case numbers in Alberta are half of the peak earlier this year (when Delta started ramping up). And yet 70% are vaccinated but only 3% were earlier this year (May). Begs the question as to why the system is falling apart now and not earlier this year.
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    First of all, your assrtion about case numbers being half is not correct. The third wave peaked at 25k active cases. The current peak is at 21k active cases. https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#total-cases https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm... Second, despite the case number not being higher than the third wave, hospitalizations and ICU admissions are higher for the current wave compared to any before. This is despite the higher vaccination rate and due to the higher dangers of the delta variant. The third wave peaked at 555 non-ICU and 183 ICU; the current wave is at 860 non-ICU and 268 ICU. ICU cases are predominantly (~90%) unvaccinated individuals. https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#severe-outcomes https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm... https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm... So the system is falling apart because the hospitals are being overwhelmed, because the delta variant is more dangerous that the previous dominant variants for unvaccinated people and there are more people in hospitals and in ICUs than ever before because of this. And this is hurting everyone, not just anti-vaxxers or those who get COVID. They even had to close 75% of operating rooms in children's hospital, because they needed to divert the resources to adults in ICUs with COVID. https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/alberta-childrens-hospital-to-close-75-per-cent-of-operating-rooms-by-monday https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/alberta-childrens-...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

toomuchtodo 5y ago

You're arguing to let low information or critical thinking challenged people die because of the actions of others (whether those actions are in good faith or not is immaterial). If Youtube decides it wants to take action to promote the public welfare, that's their right as a business. "Doing Something" is usually harm reduction within the framework of law and public policy, and there's a lot of harm out there, hence the continual debate over a) should something be done? and b) what can be done?

strgcmc 5y ago

Imagine this attitude applied to climate change. Letting the stupid runs its course and choosing inaction, will lead to disastrous warming outcomes. So, maybe there are situations where doing nothing is okay, but I don't think very large scale problems that require coordinated large scale action over long time scales to address, like global pandemics or mitigating the impacts of man made climate change, are the right situations for that kind of approach. Too many thousands/millions will die, too many billions/trillions of dollars of damage will be done, via inaction. Of course, it all comes down to whether you can stomach the cost of inaction, because maybe you don't think the impacts are all that bad. I don't have an answer to that, if two parties fundamentally disagree about what the cost of impact will be or whether that cost is acceptable (e.g. many folks in the US apparently think 600k+ COVID deaths in the US isn't a big deal, and wasn't worth the interventions applied to mitigate it to that level).

endisneigh 5y ago
I don’t see the connection
mlindner 5y ago
The problem with climate change is that the average person can't see the effects until long past the point when the problem can be easily solved. It's not at all comparable to social media.
tomp 5y ago
> Imagine this attitude applied to climate change. Letting the stupid runs its course and choosing inaction, will lead to disastrous warming outcomes. This is the same situation as climate change. Instead of doing sensible things, we banned plastic straws! (Now paper straws come in plastic packaging...). Or the situation that UK and Germany find themselves in (having invested in stupid but "green" solutions).
- dekerta 5y ago
  I didn't realise that a few regions banning plastic straws is literally the only thing the entire planet has done to combat climate change
  - mbg721 5y ago
    Not at all, we also shipped our garbage halfway across the world while pretending we were recycling; and we turned the taps off while we were brushing our teeth.
raxxorrax 5y ago
Funny that you mention that since this is a real problem with combating climate change. You need to focus on the meat of the problem, not grasping at (plastic) straws (sensible policy, but not conductive to a solution regarding this case).

Espressosaurus 5y ago

Don't do shit is how you turn into 4chan. And even 4chan has moderation.

automatic6131 5y ago
"like 4chan" is the godwin's law of social media moderation
- Espressosaurus 5y ago
  It is a very public example of the result of limited moderation. Free speech advocates advocating for absolutism in free speech need a counterargument if they're going to go down that road. In my experience, aggressive moderation, whether by the community or by admins, is the only way to keep a public community from turning into a cesspool, so if you're arguing for no moderation you better have a solution for what that actually entails.
  - sayonaraman 5y ago
    What’s wrong with 4chan? I for one think it’s awesome, one of the few outlets that haven’t gave in to censorship. I can give you a counterexample of Reddit that turned into cesspool with (and may be because of) excessive moderation. Just check their front page with posts celebrating people dying of Covid https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/
    - popcube 5y ago
      they had done a lot of debate at there, about whether this behaviour is acceptable. I just want to direct that the original purpose of this forums is try warn people what is the result of choice.
    - lovich 5y ago
      That’s some weasel wording with “(and may be because of)”. Also if you want posts of people celebrating death just stroll over into /b and mention anything to do with minorities and/or genocides. /pol is not the only containment board or issue with 4chan

valeness 5y ago

> "Let stupid run it's course" 4.5 Million Deaths Later...

hef19898 5y ago
Not all of which were part of the stupid category...
- goatlover 5y ago
  But some are. Is 10% of those deaths worth social media platforms not censoring false claims about vaccines and masks?
  - pigeonhole123 5y ago
    Should they censor that they don’t work or they they work? Both were official policy at one time in 2020

papito 5y ago

As people already mentioned here, try running a free-for-all moderation-free discussion board and see what happens. Back in the day, the Internet was full of HTML discussion boards just like this one, and idiots were banned with no questions asked. It was beautiful, and no one complained. This site has moderation, no one is complaining. YouTube is a "person" - legally now, but somehow they don't have the responsibility to be a good citizen? The fact that allegedly smart people on HN use the term "censorship" in the context of non-government control is pretty shocking. You don't know censorship. "Censorship" has absolutely nothing to do with it. A private company can allow/disallow whatever content they f---ing please, and the Wild West capitalists on this board should be the first ones to support this move. Who is going to force them? The government? Oh, hello.

josephcsible 5y ago
> Back in the day, the Internet was full of HTML discussion boards just like this one, and idiots were banned with no questions asked. It was beautiful, and no one complained. Back in the day, the Internet wasn't dominated by Facebook and Google.

smnrchrds 5y ago

In Alberta, the <20% of individuals who remain unvaccinated make up >90% of ICU admissions. ICUs are so full surgeries are being postponed, resources are being diverted to COVID ICUs, and they may have to start triaging ICU patients soon because of the lack of capacity, all of which affects not only the unvaccinated but everyone needing medical care in the province. Letting the situation run its course will kill and has killed way more than just the anti-vax.

refurb 5y ago
The case numbers in Alberta are half of the peak earlier this year (when Delta started ramping up). And yet 70% are vaccinated but only 3% were earlier this year (May). Begs the question as to why the system is falling apart now and not earlier this year.
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  First of all, your assrtion about case numbers being half is not correct. The third wave peaked at 25k active cases. The current peak is at 21k active cases. https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#total-cases https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm... Second, despite the case number not being higher than the third wave, hospitalizations and ICU admissions are higher for the current wave compared to any before. This is despite the higher vaccination rate and due to the higher dangers of the delta variant. The third wave peaked at 555 non-ICU and 183 ICU; the current wave is at 860 non-ICU and 268 ICU. ICU cases are predominantly (~90%) unvaccinated individuals. https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#severe-outcomes https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm... https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#vaccine-outcomes https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm... So the system is falling apart because the hospitals are being overwhelmed, because the delta variant is more dangerous that the previous dominant variants for unvaccinated people and there are more people in hospitals and in ICUs than ever before because of this. And this is hurting everyone, not just anti-vaxxers or those who get COVID. They even had to close 75% of operating rooms in children's hospital, because they needed to divert the resources to adults in ICUs with COVID. https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/alberta-childrens-hospital-to-close-75-per-cent-of-operating-rooms-by-monday https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/alberta-childrens-...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]