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Okay, but we really need to talk about what “stifling of public debate” means. Companies are routinely pressured to fire people in public positions who espouse

Okay, but we really need to talk about what “stifling of public debate” means. Companies are routinely pressured to fire people in public positions who espouse pro-Palestinian views. Across the nation, states are enacting legal bans against teaching the history of racism, and firing teachers who dare to make students uncomfortable (by the same people who decried “safe spaces” less than a decade ago). Plenty of people on HN support this! But for some reason, the only “free speech” issues that get attention here are radical right-wing viewpoints that get moderated on private tech platforms.

mc32 5y ago
People don’t get fired for being pro Palestinian they get fired for being violently anti-Israel. Don’t conflate the two.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- JustResign 5y ago
  In Texas, as a schoolteacher, you must agree not to boycott Israel. Is boycotting violence?
  - mc32 5y ago
    I feel that is overreach by the state (and there are quite a few others), but I would also ask if boycotting is not violence then not using a specific pronoun would fall in the same category as the above -impolite but not violent. As a teacher, your job is to educate in the subject, teach some social behaviors (civics0 and stay away from political indoctrination.
    - IndPhysiker 5y ago
      It isn't an overstep, but is probably just a weird method for compliance. The Export Administration Regulation is a US federal law that includes penalties for supporting boycotts of US trade partners and allies. Normally this is directed towards anti-Israel boycotts in the middle east where legislation in several countries prohibit trade with organizations that also trade with Israel. If a US entity adheres to that country's boycott by refusing business with Israel, then they are in a legally actionable position. I don't personally know how Texas may be notifying people about compliance requirements, but this is actually pretty standard language in many contracts involving export compliance sections.
invisible 5y ago
We are on a news site focused mostly on tech, startups, and entrepreneurship that often just has other intellectual conversations. It makes sense that the general flavor of submissions leans tech. > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
rvz 5y ago
> But for some reason, the only “free speech” issues that get attention here are radical right-wing viewpoints that get moderated on private tech platforms. Do you mind reading the HN guidelines once again? [0] HN is not for flamewars or ideological battles especially when comments like this are unsubstantiated with lack of evidence. From [0] > Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- jakelazaroff 5y ago
  I don’t see the issue here. My comment is on-topic and not more flamebaity or ideological than the average comment in this thread.
  - rvz 5y ago
    Not only your comment is unsubstantiated and has no evidence, it had already created a flamewar and caused the whole thread to go off topic which is exactly what the HN guidelines I highlighted to you is supposed to prevent as the topic gets divisive. Can you please read the HN guidelines again? [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - jakelazaroff 5y ago
      I would hardly call this handful of replies (within a thread of 1200 comments) a "flamewar", and I disagree that it's unsubstantiated or off-topic. If the moderators think I'm breaking the guidelines, I'll happily comply. Until then, could you please stop telling me to read them?
      - rvz 5y ago
        So you will continue to break the guidelines until you get caught? Right. Your comment is still unsubstantiated, has zero evidence and also risked (and has caused) a flamewar in this thread to go off-topic and that is exactly how it can get divisive very quickly and it was already met with mass flagging earlier from other users to prevent other replies from falling for this flame-bait. > Until then, could you please stop telling me to read them? By commenting here, I assume you have read the guidelines but it seems that you already admitted that you haven't read them which why I'm asking you to read them once again. From [0] > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
josephcsible 5y ago
> states are enacting legal bans against teaching the history of racism There's a big difference between keeping government employees from saying certain things during their official duties, and keeping everyone from saying certain things in general.
- jakelazaroff 5y ago
  Sure, but there’s also a big difference between keeping YouTube users from saying certain things on YouTube, and keeping everyone from saying certain things in general.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    That's not the equivalent. The equivalent would be keeping Google employees from saying certain things on YouTube with their work accounts.
    - jakelazaroff 5y ago
      The article is about keeping YouTube users from saying certain things on YouTube.
  - pacerwpg 5y ago
    Ah, the irony of your root comment getting censored by being flagged in a thread about censorship, because it wasn't popular.
    - jakelazaroff 5y ago
      You can really feel the commitment to public debate!
- themusicgod1 5y ago
  what was the above comment?
  - 5y ago
jquery 5y ago
Precisely. This is a private company taking a stand against dangerous medical disinformation in the middle of a pandemic and HN is willing to die on this hill. Meanwhile I see HN cheer what you just mentioned. It churns the stomach. Reminds me of how Reddit just dropped the ban hammer threat on /r/hermancainaward because it was making right-wingers angry, while leaving up /r/conspiracy and other antivaxx disinformation subreddits. The faces of the dead have to be censored now, sanitizing the entire experience of /r/hermancainaward, making the experience little more than a bunch of anonymous antivaxx memes.

mc32 5y ago

People don’t get fired for being pro Palestinian they get fired for being violently anti-Israel. Don’t conflate the two.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
JustResign 5y ago
In Texas, as a schoolteacher, you must agree not to boycott Israel. Is boycotting violence?
- mc32 5y ago
  I feel that is overreach by the state (and there are quite a few others), but I would also ask if boycotting is not violence then not using a specific pronoun would fall in the same category as the above -impolite but not violent. As a teacher, your job is to educate in the subject, teach some social behaviors (civics0 and stay away from political indoctrination.
  - IndPhysiker 5y ago
    It isn't an overstep, but is probably just a weird method for compliance. The Export Administration Regulation is a US federal law that includes penalties for supporting boycotts of US trade partners and allies. Normally this is directed towards anti-Israel boycotts in the middle east where legislation in several countries prohibit trade with organizations that also trade with Israel. If a US entity adheres to that country's boycott by refusing business with Israel, then they are in a legally actionable position. I don't personally know how Texas may be notifying people about compliance requirements, but this is actually pretty standard language in many contracts involving export compliance sections.

invisible 5y ago

We are on a news site focused mostly on tech, startups, and entrepreneurship that often just has other intellectual conversations. It makes sense that the general flavor of submissions leans tech. > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

rvz 5y ago

> But for some reason, the only “free speech” issues that get attention here are radical right-wing viewpoints that get moderated on private tech platforms. Do you mind reading the HN guidelines once again? [0] HN is not for flamewars or ideological battles especially when comments like this are unsubstantiated with lack of evidence. From [0] > Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

jakelazaroff 5y ago
I don’t see the issue here. My comment is on-topic and not more flamebaity or ideological than the average comment in this thread.
- rvz 5y ago
  Not only your comment is unsubstantiated and has no evidence, it had already created a flamewar and caused the whole thread to go off topic which is exactly what the HN guidelines I highlighted to you is supposed to prevent as the topic gets divisive. Can you please read the HN guidelines again? [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jakelazaroff 5y ago
    I would hardly call this handful of replies (within a thread of 1200 comments) a "flamewar", and I disagree that it's unsubstantiated or off-topic. If the moderators think I'm breaking the guidelines, I'll happily comply. Until then, could you please stop telling me to read them?
    - rvz 5y ago
      So you will continue to break the guidelines until you get caught? Right. Your comment is still unsubstantiated, has zero evidence and also risked (and has caused) a flamewar in this thread to go off-topic and that is exactly how it can get divisive very quickly and it was already met with mass flagging earlier from other users to prevent other replies from falling for this flame-bait. > Until then, could you please stop telling me to read them? By commenting here, I assume you have read the guidelines but it seems that you already admitted that you haven't read them which why I'm asking you to read them once again. From [0] > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. > Eschew flamebait. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

josephcsible 5y ago

> states are enacting legal bans against teaching the history of racism There's a big difference between keeping government employees from saying certain things during their official duties, and keeping everyone from saying certain things in general.

jakelazaroff 5y ago
Sure, but there’s also a big difference between keeping YouTube users from saying certain things on YouTube, and keeping everyone from saying certain things in general.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  That's not the equivalent. The equivalent would be keeping Google employees from saying certain things on YouTube with their work accounts.
  - jakelazaroff 5y ago
    The article is about keeping YouTube users from saying certain things on YouTube.
- pacerwpg 5y ago
  Ah, the irony of your root comment getting censored by being flagged in a thread about censorship, because it wasn't popular.
  - jakelazaroff 5y ago
    You can really feel the commitment to public debate!
themusicgod1 5y ago
what was the above comment?
- 5y ago

jquery 5y ago

Precisely. This is a private company taking a stand against dangerous medical disinformation in the middle of a pandemic and HN is willing to die on this hill. Meanwhile I see HN cheer what you just mentioned. It churns the stomach. Reminds me of how Reddit just dropped the ban hammer threat on /r/hermancainaward because it was making right-wingers angry, while leaving up /r/conspiracy and other antivaxx disinformation subreddits. The faces of the dead have to be censored now, sanitizing the entire experience of /r/hermancainaward, making the experience little more than a bunch of anonymous antivaxx memes.