15 ms·

Ask HN: Most employable programming languages for 2022 and beyond?

30 points by hermitsings 5y ago

Preferably for freshers

brunooliv 5y ago
Python for job orchestration (Airflow) and data science (numpy, scipy, etc) , Java 16+ for the general enterprise, product development, Julia for HPC. C for embedded, C++ for games, highly intensive systems.
- d3nj4l 5y ago
  Can't have a most employable list without mentioning JS. Personally I'd swap Julia for JS. Apart from that this list tracks.
  - goatlover 5y ago
    JS for HPC instead of Julia?
- hermitsings 5y ago
  No Rust, no Go? (Not that I am rooting for them)
  - jamil7 5y ago
    Go maybe, especially for tooling, backend and ops work, from my perspective Rust will take a while longer employability-wise but probably still worth learning.
- closeparen 5y ago
  Which enterprises have upgraded Java since 8?
omosubi 5y ago
Employable by what kind of companies? I'd imagine the following aren't going away anytime soon and will likely be employable for entire careers for many people: JavaScript, java, c#/.net, python, c++, go - basically just find what Enterprise is using and learn those
leander1978 5y ago
I am currently digging into Nim. It feels like Python, does some things better, and not very many things worse. It is strongly typed, has method overloading and Macros. Creating objects is much more enjoyable than in Python. foo(a, b) can be written as a.foo(b), and foo(x) can be written as x.foo. The docs are very good.
- nothrowaways 5y ago
  First time to hear about it. I don't think it will be most employable in 2022
- hermitsings 5y ago
  Agreed. Looked into Nim a while ago. Docs are really good. Is it good for jobs?
  - leander1978 5y ago
    > Is it good for jobs? Not yet, I guess. It is too new.
- leander1978 5y ago
  And it is compiled (using a MinGW C compiler)
ChrisRackauckas 5y ago
A lot of Julia-based companies just hit big Seed A, Seed B, etc. rounds, with a lot more startups entering the space as well. There is a glut of Julia programmers in the industry now given all of this hiring. "Most employable" is hard because no one is in all places, but I can at least tell you that locally there is and will be a lot of hiring in the next few years here.
- hermitsings 5y ago
  Thanks!
- nimithryn 5y ago
  Examples?
  - ChrisRackauckas 5y ago
    Julia Computing is hiring. https://juliacomputing.com/careers/ https://juliacomputing.com/careers/ Relational AI is hiring. https://www.relational.ai/careers https://www.relational.ai/careers Beacon Biosignals is hiring. https://beacon.bio/careers https://beacon.bio/careers Invenia is hiring. https://www.invenia.ca/ https://www.invenia.ca/ and I can keep going. There's to cause pleasant competition, so it's a good pool for people to enter (and a good pool for me to find more people for haha). In julialang.org/slack there's a #jobs channel that gets a lot of posts. https://discourse.julialang.org/c/community/jobs https://discourse.julialang.org/c/community/jobs tends to get some (but surprisingly not most) of the posts, and it's more about academic positions (though #academia in the slack tends to be better). And the #julialang Twitter tends to post some jobs around.
- ebb_earl_co 5y ago
  Oh, fascinating. Do you have any examples? I'm learning Julia and would be interested in setting goals for working at one of these startups
  - ChrisRackauckas 5y ago
munduz 5y ago
Client side developers are in need: JS, Dart, Java/Kotlin (android), Objective C/Swift (ios).
aynyc 5y ago
What are freshers? Most employable languages are still the enterprise languages. 1. Java and its ecosystem 2. JS and its ecosystem 3. Python and its ecosystem I see more and more people are asking framework experience as well now. 1. Spring Boot 2. React 3. Pandas Add AWS to your resume, you can probably ride AWS/Java/Python for the next 10 years.
- rl1987 5y ago
  Fresher is entry-level junior developer at their first job or looking for one. This term is mostly used in Indian context.
skrtskrt 5y ago
As a Python backend services dev I fear a lot of the Python popularity you see is data analyst and data science/data pipelines/ML roles so if thats not your bag then don’t go all in on Python. Lots of companies doing cool backend things are doing Golang now, and I see Infra/SRE roles mention Go a lot. and of course endless tons of both cool and uncool companies are still committed to Java.
heisnotanalien 5y ago
Find a programming language you actually like and want to use rather than what will be popular for this is the way to true happiness. You don't want to have to code javascript just because it's popular.
- hermitsings 5y ago
  I'm trying to find a sweet spot.
vgeek 5y ago
If you step outside of the HN language of the month bubble, you'll see lots of boring companies using languages like PHP and C#. They're not flashy, but they're used everywhere and aren't going anywhere. Sure, they'll be back office type jobs, but they will be stable with good enough benefits and probably won't tolerate rewriting the entire stack in the latest technology every 6 months. Then layer on JS/CSS with whichever backend language you like and you should be fairly safe. Stack Overflow's survey may be useful to look at, too. https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#most-popular-technologies-language-prof https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#most-popular-...
- saberience 5y ago
  Lots of boring companies using C#? You know, many top unicorns use C#, many top gaming companies use C# (including Blizzard). Just because you have some weird anti Microsoft-bias doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong or "boring" with C#
  - beardyw 5y ago
    Just checked the parent's past comments and I don't see how you can say that. I think "PHP and Java" would have been just as apt but maybe not raised your hackles?
  - Asraelite 5y ago
    Not GP but I didn't interpret it to mean that all C# companies are boring, or that the language itself is boring, just that many boring C# companies exist.
    - pathartl 5y ago
      Yep, the better terms to use are ones like stable or anchored. Companies that aren't trying to push the bounds of development and are just trying to work for their own business.
  - vgeek 5y ago
    I didn't say C# was exclusively used by boring companies. I made no claim that it was a bad language, quite the opposite (I would probably have it in my top 5 back end languages). I'm not using boring as a derogatory adjective-- just as catch-all for non-VC/FAANG companies. If you look at "boring" or mature companies such as insurance or consumer good companies, where technology is viewed as just a tool to solve the business objective, rather than the feathers of the goose laying the golden eggs, you will find different priorities-- such as programming languages that take into consideration backwards compatibility, scalability from the start, development time and general support ecosystem.
mrkramer 5y ago
I will summarize what others said and I will add my own thinking as well. Web Development: PHP and Javascript and its ecosystem Mobile Development: Java/Kotlin for Android and Objective-C/Swift for iOS Enterprise software: C++, Java, Rust and Golang Machine Learning, AI and Data Analysis: Python and its ecosystem Embedded: C and Rust Game development: C++ for PC and Game Consoles, Java as well for PC games, Java/Kotlin for Android games, Objective-C/Swift for iOS games and Javascript and its ecosystem for Web games
- buescher 5y ago
  There's probably more use of C++ in embedded than there is Rust. Heck, there's probably more Ada and assembly, too, if you look for it. Rust might beat out Forth by now.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  You probably should add C++ to embedded. It's used a fair amount, at least on larger processors/projects.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    And remove Rust.
- mooreds 5y ago
  This is a great list and points out the flaw in the question, which is "employed at which type of company". A web consultancy has different needs from Intel, so they use different languages. Yet both hire "freshers" and other programmers. One thing I'd add to your list. The Microsoft ecosystem is big in the enterprise, so C# should go on that bullet point.
  - mrkramer 5y ago
    I never worked in the Enterprise software industry but when I was researching Computer Security and especially Windows Computer Security I saw a lot of C# software in the both "Red Team" and "Blue Team" camp so I suppose it must be pretty popular and useful in the Enterprise industry. I mentioned C++ and Java first because they are kings of Enterprise software. Rust and Golang are newcomers which are rapidly growing. Yea I know Microsoft ecosystem is huge for example all Windows sysadmins use Microsoft's PowerShell scripting language to manage their networks. Also in the "Web Development" I didn't mention HTML and CSS because they are not exactly computer programming languages but a markup language for web documents and a style sheet language for web documents respectively.
ericb 5y ago
Ruby should be up there. Github, Shopify, Airbnb, Twitch and tons others are using it, but also growing incredibly. Growth of the Ruby talent pool slowed down while the JS SPA fad went nuts, but growth of companies using it didn't! So the Rails job market is hot--supply is down, demand is up! Throw in the new Rails 7 upgrades with simple JS packaging, turbo and stimulus reflex, and there's a pretty solid case for really high employability going forward.
gavinray 5y ago
JavaScript/TypeScript, C#, Java, Python Pick one (or more) you enjoy
- hermitsings 5y ago
  This is probably it.
alephu5 5y ago
Backend: Python (Django) Spring Boot Frontend: Typescript (React + React-native) Kotlin, Java and Swift Quite a good way of getting into mobile development is to start with react-native and learn the native languages by adding modules.
qq4 5y ago
I think concentrating on the language is a mistake. Once you can grok a few, perhaps at least one imperative and functional, you can learn any other in a matter of days. Sure, mastery takes much longer but in my experience most businesses hire for effectiveness to make change not be a guru of language X and Y.
Akronymus 5y ago
Definitely learn the boring ones, C#/Java, SQL, JS and such. But IMO also learn other paradigms. Such as FP or a LISP. And definitely read: https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/1243380 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/1243380 This is THE must read book IMO.
goodpoint 5y ago
People in the replies are confusing language popularity with developer demand. Reminder: you don't need 10000 jobs. You need one. Aiming for a niche market rather than doing shotgun is a perfectly valid strategy. Find what fits you. (random example: if you care exclusively about income and employability, learn COBOL)

30 points by hermitsings 5y ago

Preferably for freshers

Python for job orchestration (Airflow) and data science (numpy, scipy, etc) , Java 16+ for the general enterprise, product development, Julia for HPC. C for embedded, C++ for games, highly intensive systems.

d3nj4l 5y ago
Can't have a most employable list without mentioning JS. Personally I'd swap Julia for JS. Apart from that this list tracks.
- goatlover 5y ago
  JS for HPC instead of Julia?
hermitsings 5y ago
No Rust, no Go? (Not that I am rooting for them)
- jamil7 5y ago
  Go maybe, especially for tooling, backend and ops work, from my perspective Rust will take a while longer employability-wise but probably still worth learning.
closeparen 5y ago
Which enterprises have upgraded Java since 8?

omosubi 5y ago

Employable by what kind of companies? I'd imagine the following aren't going away anytime soon and will likely be employable for entire careers for many people: JavaScript, java, c#/.net, python, c++, go - basically just find what Enterprise is using and learn those

leander1978 5y ago

I am currently digging into Nim. It feels like Python, does some things better, and not very many things worse. It is strongly typed, has method overloading and Macros. Creating objects is much more enjoyable than in Python. foo(a, b) can be written as a.foo(b), and foo(x) can be written as x.foo. The docs are very good.

nothrowaways 5y ago
First time to hear about it. I don't think it will be most employable in 2022
hermitsings 5y ago
Agreed. Looked into Nim a while ago. Docs are really good. Is it good for jobs?
- leander1978 5y ago
  > Is it good for jobs? Not yet, I guess. It is too new.
leander1978 5y ago
And it is compiled (using a MinGW C compiler)

ChrisRackauckas 5y ago

A lot of Julia-based companies just hit big Seed A, Seed B, etc. rounds, with a lot more startups entering the space as well. There is a glut of Julia programmers in the industry now given all of this hiring. "Most employable" is hard because no one is in all places, but I can at least tell you that locally there is and will be a lot of hiring in the next few years here.

hermitsings 5y ago
Thanks!
nimithryn 5y ago
Examples?
- ChrisRackauckas 5y ago
  Julia Computing is hiring. https://juliacomputing.com/careers/ https://juliacomputing.com/careers/ Relational AI is hiring. https://www.relational.ai/careers https://www.relational.ai/careers Beacon Biosignals is hiring. https://beacon.bio/careers https://beacon.bio/careers Invenia is hiring. https://www.invenia.ca/ https://www.invenia.ca/ and I can keep going. There's to cause pleasant competition, so it's a good pool for people to enter (and a good pool for me to find more people for haha). In julialang.org/slack there's a #jobs channel that gets a lot of posts. https://discourse.julialang.org/c/community/jobs https://discourse.julialang.org/c/community/jobs tends to get some (but surprisingly not most) of the posts, and it's more about academic positions (though #academia in the slack tends to be better). And the #julialang Twitter tends to post some jobs around.
ebb_earl_co 5y ago
Oh, fascinating. Do you have any examples? I'm learning Julia and would be interested in setting goals for working at one of these startups
- ChrisRackauckas 5y ago

munduz 5y ago

Client side developers are in need: JS, Dart, Java/Kotlin (android), Objective C/Swift (ios).

aynyc 5y ago

What are freshers? Most employable languages are still the enterprise languages. 1. Java and its ecosystem 2. JS and its ecosystem 3. Python and its ecosystem I see more and more people are asking framework experience as well now. 1. Spring Boot 2. React 3. Pandas Add AWS to your resume, you can probably ride AWS/Java/Python for the next 10 years.

rl1987 5y ago
Fresher is entry-level junior developer at their first job or looking for one. This term is mostly used in Indian context.

skrtskrt 5y ago

As a Python backend services dev I fear a lot of the Python popularity you see is data analyst and data science/data pipelines/ML roles so if thats not your bag then don’t go all in on Python. Lots of companies doing cool backend things are doing Golang now, and I see Infra/SRE roles mention Go a lot. and of course endless tons of both cool and uncool companies are still committed to Java.

heisnotanalien 5y ago

Find a programming language you actually like and want to use rather than what will be popular for this is the way to true happiness. You don't want to have to code javascript just because it's popular.

hermitsings 5y ago
I'm trying to find a sweet spot.

vgeek 5y ago

If you step outside of the HN language of the month bubble, you'll see lots of boring companies using languages like PHP and C#. They're not flashy, but they're used everywhere and aren't going anywhere. Sure, they'll be back office type jobs, but they will be stable with good enough benefits and probably won't tolerate rewriting the entire stack in the latest technology every 6 months. Then layer on JS/CSS with whichever backend language you like and you should be fairly safe. Stack Overflow's survey may be useful to look at, too. https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#most-popular-technologies-language-prof https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#most-popular-...

saberience 5y ago
Lots of boring companies using C#? You know, many top unicorns use C#, many top gaming companies use C# (including Blizzard). Just because you have some weird anti Microsoft-bias doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong or "boring" with C#
- beardyw 5y ago
  Just checked the parent's past comments and I don't see how you can say that. I think "PHP and Java" would have been just as apt but maybe not raised your hackles?
- Asraelite 5y ago
  Not GP but I didn't interpret it to mean that all C# companies are boring, or that the language itself is boring, just that many boring C# companies exist.
  - pathartl 5y ago
    Yep, the better terms to use are ones like stable or anchored. Companies that aren't trying to push the bounds of development and are just trying to work for their own business.
- vgeek 5y ago
  I didn't say C# was exclusively used by boring companies. I made no claim that it was a bad language, quite the opposite (I would probably have it in my top 5 back end languages). I'm not using boring as a derogatory adjective-- just as catch-all for non-VC/FAANG companies. If you look at "boring" or mature companies such as insurance or consumer good companies, where technology is viewed as just a tool to solve the business objective, rather than the feathers of the goose laying the golden eggs, you will find different priorities-- such as programming languages that take into consideration backwards compatibility, scalability from the start, development time and general support ecosystem.

mrkramer 5y ago

I will summarize what others said and I will add my own thinking as well. Web Development: PHP and Javascript and its ecosystem Mobile Development: Java/Kotlin for Android and Objective-C/Swift for iOS Enterprise software: C++, Java, Rust and Golang Machine Learning, AI and Data Analysis: Python and its ecosystem Embedded: C and Rust Game development: C++ for PC and Game Consoles, Java as well for PC games, Java/Kotlin for Android games, Objective-C/Swift for iOS games and Javascript and its ecosystem for Web games

buescher 5y ago
There's probably more use of C++ in embedded than there is Rust. Heck, there's probably more Ada and assembly, too, if you look for it. Rust might beat out Forth by now.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
You probably should add C++ to embedded. It's used a fair amount, at least on larger processors/projects.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  And remove Rust.
mooreds 5y ago
This is a great list and points out the flaw in the question, which is "employed at which type of company". A web consultancy has different needs from Intel, so they use different languages. Yet both hire "freshers" and other programmers. One thing I'd add to your list. The Microsoft ecosystem is big in the enterprise, so C# should go on that bullet point.
- mrkramer 5y ago
  I never worked in the Enterprise software industry but when I was researching Computer Security and especially Windows Computer Security I saw a lot of C# software in the both "Red Team" and "Blue Team" camp so I suppose it must be pretty popular and useful in the Enterprise industry. I mentioned C++ and Java first because they are kings of Enterprise software. Rust and Golang are newcomers which are rapidly growing. Yea I know Microsoft ecosystem is huge for example all Windows sysadmins use Microsoft's PowerShell scripting language to manage their networks. Also in the "Web Development" I didn't mention HTML and CSS because they are not exactly computer programming languages but a markup language for web documents and a style sheet language for web documents respectively.

ericb 5y ago

Ruby should be up there. Github, Shopify, Airbnb, Twitch and tons others are using it, but also growing incredibly. Growth of the Ruby talent pool slowed down while the JS SPA fad went nuts, but growth of companies using it didn't! So the Rails job market is hot--supply is down, demand is up! Throw in the new Rails 7 upgrades with simple JS packaging, turbo and stimulus reflex, and there's a pretty solid case for really high employability going forward.

gavinray 5y ago

JavaScript/TypeScript, C#, Java, Python Pick one (or more) you enjoy

hermitsings 5y ago
This is probably it.

alephu5 5y ago

Backend: Python (Django) Spring Boot Frontend: Typescript (React + React-native) Kotlin, Java and Swift Quite a good way of getting into mobile development is to start with react-native and learn the native languages by adding modules.

qq4 5y ago

I think concentrating on the language is a mistake. Once you can grok a few, perhaps at least one imperative and functional, you can learn any other in a matter of days. Sure, mastery takes much longer but in my experience most businesses hire for effectiveness to make change not be a guru of language X and Y.

Akronymus 5y ago

Definitely learn the boring ones, C#/Java, SQL, JS and such. But IMO also learn other paradigms. Such as FP or a LISP. And definitely read: https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/1243380 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.5555/1243380 This is THE must read book IMO.

goodpoint 5y ago

People in the replies are confusing language popularity with developer demand. Reminder: you don't need 10000 jobs. You need one. Aiming for a niche market rather than doing shotgun is a perfectly valid strategy. Find what fits you. (random example: if you care exclusively about income and employability, learn COBOL)