3 ms·

Covid and the moral matrix: Will “lockdown ethics” persist beyond the pandemic?

18 points by aww_dang 5y ago

aww_dang 5y ago
Full title: Covid and the moral matrix: Will the new “lockdown code of ethics” persist beyond the pandemic?
bonnie76 5y ago
That was an eye opening way to lay it out.
EricE 5y ago
I have little faith after watching post 9/11 America. Not sure - maybe it started with my generation (gen x) but freedom just seems to not have the same meaning. Probably because from the boomers on no one really has had the alternative to compare/contrast with. We were born into a country that had it way too good. For one thing - my grandparents generation never would have stood for the wholesale transfer and consolidation of wealth from small to big business that happened during this "pandemic". Anyone who thinks masks, boosters or any other idiotic "solution" are going to lead back to "normalcy" are deluding themselves. Every goal post has moved (six weeks to flatten the curve?!?), they continue to move, and yet the majority of fattened cattle seem content to graze on...
- aeternum 5y ago
  I agree, especially with how politicisezed the whole thing has become. You're not a true democrat unless you unconditionally support mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and business shutdowns.
- Factorium 5y ago
  Get ready for the vaccine mandate goalposts to be shifted to '6-monthly booster shots for everyone'. This is already the policy in Israel: https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-vaccine-pass-to-expire-after-6-months-booster-shots-2021-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-vaccine-pass-to-expir... "Israel said its vaccine pass, which grants access to nonessential venues like restaurants and bars, now expires six months after the second dose of vaccine." "Getting a booster shot five months after the second dose resets the clock and extends eligibility for the so-called "green pass" by another six months, Israel's health ministry announced."
- rewma 5y ago
  > Anyone who thinks masks, boosters or any other idiotic "solution" are going to lead back to "normalcy" are deluding themselves. Every goal post has moved (six weeks to flatten the curve?!?), they continue to move, and yet the majority of fattened cattle seem content to graze on... I feel this line of argument is disingenuous or fails to take into account the very basics of what the curve is and how lockdowns lead to flattening it and the impact of new strains and the need for booster shots. You cannot dissociate lockdowns from infection waves in each country, of which in the US there were already four of them. I'm each of these four waves, US hospitals became saturated and unable to meet the demand for not only COVID-19 patients but also patients suffering from other pathologies. Also, we can't ignore the inception of the Delta strain, a new development which is not only more aggressive but also not handled well by the initial batch of vaccines, as they were developed in a time where the Delta variant did not exist. Therefore, to mitigate the impact of this new strain, a booster shot was developed. I feel your take on events, provided without any context whatsoever, puts a spin on developments to convey the idea of whimsical and arbitrary policies that have no justification, and which would have absolutely no drawback if they weren't followed. This is a completely unrealistic take on events to the point that I wonder whether it's honest. Lastly, you should open your eyes and take a look at countries like Spain or Portugal, which due to their national COVID-19 vaccination drive and widespread support managed to reign in the pandemic within their borders and are right now actually returning to normal, without even considering mask mandates. For something which, as you tried to spin, has so many conspiratorial overtones and looks like a pipe dream, how come we're not seeing the sky falling in countries which followed the same strategy successfully and instead we are actually seeing everything returning to normal?
felistoria 5y ago
That was actually kind of scary to read.
joelbondurant 5y ago
Tyrants deserve bullet holes.
angelzen 5y ago
> The Lockdown Code of Ethics: > 1. Human life has an unbounded value that places it above all other ethical concerns. Life is sacred. It cannot be part of any cost-benefit transaction. The fact of living trumps quality of life, full stop. > 2. Not doing everything possible to extend life is unethical. Material and psychological setbacks can be overcome, death cannot. If we have the scientific tools to extend life, we should spare no effort to do to. > 3. Age should not factor into the life-saving calculus. We should labour as hard to save a ninety-year-old as a nine-year-old. A life is a life. The health-economic measure of QALY [quality-adjusted life years] is reductive and offensive. > 4. Individual health is a collective responsibility. This applies especially to transmissible diseases. Our collective duty to keep transmission in check overrides our freedom to manage personal risk. If someone catches a disease from us, we bear full responsibility. > 5. Human rights rank far behind public safety. Safety categorically trumps liberty, and a state of health emergency supersedes individual rights. ===== A pattern: Modern liberal societies do not understand the concept of 'area'. We are systematically prioritizing large visible individual benefit in a small chunk of the population vs. small individual costs spread over a large chunk of the population, even if the total benefit area is much smaller than the total cost area.

18 points by aww_dang 5y ago

aww_dang 5y ago

Full title: Covid and the moral matrix: Will the new “lockdown code of ethics” persist beyond the pandemic?

bonnie76 5y ago

That was an eye opening way to lay it out.

EricE 5y ago

I have little faith after watching post 9/11 America. Not sure - maybe it started with my generation (gen x) but freedom just seems to not have the same meaning. Probably because from the boomers on no one really has had the alternative to compare/contrast with. We were born into a country that had it way too good. For one thing - my grandparents generation never would have stood for the wholesale transfer and consolidation of wealth from small to big business that happened during this "pandemic". Anyone who thinks masks, boosters or any other idiotic "solution" are going to lead back to "normalcy" are deluding themselves. Every goal post has moved (six weeks to flatten the curve?!?), they continue to move, and yet the majority of fattened cattle seem content to graze on...

aeternum 5y ago
I agree, especially with how politicisezed the whole thing has become. You're not a true democrat unless you unconditionally support mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and business shutdowns.
Factorium 5y ago
Get ready for the vaccine mandate goalposts to be shifted to '6-monthly booster shots for everyone'. This is already the policy in Israel: https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-vaccine-pass-to-expire-after-6-months-booster-shots-2021-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-vaccine-pass-to-expir... "Israel said its vaccine pass, which grants access to nonessential venues like restaurants and bars, now expires six months after the second dose of vaccine." "Getting a booster shot five months after the second dose resets the clock and extends eligibility for the so-called "green pass" by another six months, Israel's health ministry announced."
rewma 5y ago
> Anyone who thinks masks, boosters or any other idiotic "solution" are going to lead back to "normalcy" are deluding themselves. Every goal post has moved (six weeks to flatten the curve?!?), they continue to move, and yet the majority of fattened cattle seem content to graze on... I feel this line of argument is disingenuous or fails to take into account the very basics of what the curve is and how lockdowns lead to flattening it and the impact of new strains and the need for booster shots. You cannot dissociate lockdowns from infection waves in each country, of which in the US there were already four of them. I'm each of these four waves, US hospitals became saturated and unable to meet the demand for not only COVID-19 patients but also patients suffering from other pathologies. Also, we can't ignore the inception of the Delta strain, a new development which is not only more aggressive but also not handled well by the initial batch of vaccines, as they were developed in a time where the Delta variant did not exist. Therefore, to mitigate the impact of this new strain, a booster shot was developed. I feel your take on events, provided without any context whatsoever, puts a spin on developments to convey the idea of whimsical and arbitrary policies that have no justification, and which would have absolutely no drawback if they weren't followed. This is a completely unrealistic take on events to the point that I wonder whether it's honest. Lastly, you should open your eyes and take a look at countries like Spain or Portugal, which due to their national COVID-19 vaccination drive and widespread support managed to reign in the pandemic within their borders and are right now actually returning to normal, without even considering mask mandates. For something which, as you tried to spin, has so many conspiratorial overtones and looks like a pipe dream, how come we're not seeing the sky falling in countries which followed the same strategy successfully and instead we are actually seeing everything returning to normal?

felistoria 5y ago

That was actually kind of scary to read.

joelbondurant 5y ago

Tyrants deserve bullet holes.

angelzen 5y ago

> The Lockdown Code of Ethics: > 1. Human life has an unbounded value that places it above all other ethical concerns. Life is sacred. It cannot be part of any cost-benefit transaction. The fact of living trumps quality of life, full stop. > 2. Not doing everything possible to extend life is unethical. Material and psychological setbacks can be overcome, death cannot. If we have the scientific tools to extend life, we should spare no effort to do to. > 3. Age should not factor into the life-saving calculus. We should labour as hard to save a ninety-year-old as a nine-year-old. A life is a life. The health-economic measure of QALY [quality-adjusted life years] is reductive and offensive. > 4. Individual health is a collective responsibility. This applies especially to transmissible diseases. Our collective duty to keep transmission in check overrides our freedom to manage personal risk. If someone catches a disease from us, we bear full responsibility. > 5. Human rights rank far behind public safety. Safety categorically trumps liberty, and a state of health emergency supersedes individual rights. ===== A pattern: Modern liberal societies do not understand the concept of 'area'. We are systematically prioritizing large visible individual benefit in a small chunk of the population vs. small individual costs spread over a large chunk of the population, even if the total benefit area is much smaller than the total cost area.