3 ms·

Are you dumb, or what? I've written they don't need to because they have other means, which at the end of the day amounts to 'the same shit, but different' for

Are you dumb, or what? I've written they don't need to because they have other means, which at the end of the day amounts to 'the same shit, but different' for the influenced vasall states.

throwaway894345 5y ago
You wrote: > They don't need to, because they have the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantik-Br%C3%BCcke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantik-Br%C3%BCcke and other similary undemocratic institutions influencing the shit out of anything via side-channel attacks. Which clearly says that the US has "undemocratic institutions" influencing Europe, but the link doesn't support the idea that the A-B is antidemocratic (there's nothing inherently "antidemocratic" about fostering international partnership and cooperation).
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Look...I may be naive, but if you have institutions which push policies, empower candidates beyond the scenes, via whichever circles, then this is undemocratic, or otherwise called 'framing', 'setting the goal posts' to 'game' the rules into your favour. Or cheating, or fraud, or whatever. Which means candidates prepared that way, and then presented as the only option(s) to give the deceived masses the illusion of choice is simply a lie. edit: Of course this is not exclusive to the US, let's just say they lead the market of political BS, k?
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    > if you have institutions which push policies, empower candidates beyond the scenes There's nothing in your article that suggested that the organization in question was some sort of propaganda arm of the US government, and there's nothing undemocratic about advocating for one's interests. You might not agree with the advocacy, but "democracy" doesn't demand agreement. > Of course this is not exclusive to the US, let's just say they lead the market of political BS, k? I don't buy this at all. There are nations with actual propaganda departments, state-run censorship, bot nets, etc who actually directly attempt to influence elections. Like all other countries, the US does advocate for its own interests abroad--this is called "diplomacy" and it's generally the least-bad kind of advocacy. However, unlike other countries, the US does possess a lot of clout (the world depends on America in large part for security and prosperity, however loath we are to admit that America or Americans serve a useful purpose).
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      By the great gods of Gonzo! I'm not here to spoon feed, mentor, or lecture you on every single point you question. Furthermore it would be disrespectful to disturb your blissful ignorance. Dream in peace.
    - Lammy 5y ago
      > There's nothing in your article that suggested that the organization in question was some sort of propaganda arm of the US government Yeah besides the name I guess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanticism
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        I skimmed your link as well. If there’s something particularly damning about Atlanticism, it’s not jumping out at me. People keep sharing innocuous wikipedia links and then dropping the mic dramatically.
        LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
        Well.. maybe they had another version in mind, and just posted the english one for ease of use, without realising it lacks the important section from their language? Try [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantiker#Kritik https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantiker#Kritik and use some translation like [2] https://www.deepl.com/translator https://www.deepl.com/translator [3] https://translate.google.com https://translate.google.com [4] https://translate.yandex.com https://translate.yandex.com They all suffice. Got the gist?
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        Could be, but it's not my problem. If they can't be bothered to paste the right link or a relevant snippet, I'm not going to do their work for them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        5y ago
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    Literally every single political institution in the world, from sports clubs to town councils to national governments, have back channels and organizations that promote agendas. It is the means by which those agendas get put through governments that make something legitimate or not. But we're going down a rabbit hole. The point is that Russia now has more economic leverage over eastern Europe, and for what?

Are you dumb, or what? I've written they don't need to because they have other means, which at the end of the day amounts to 'the same shit, but different' for the influenced vasall states.

throwaway894345 5y ago

You wrote: > They don't need to, because they have the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantik-Br%C3%BCcke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantik-Br%C3%BCcke and other similary undemocratic institutions influencing the shit out of anything via side-channel attacks. Which clearly says that the US has "undemocratic institutions" influencing Europe, but the link doesn't support the idea that the A-B is antidemocratic (there's nothing inherently "antidemocratic" about fostering international partnership and cooperation).

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
Look...I may be naive, but if you have institutions which push policies, empower candidates beyond the scenes, via whichever circles, then this is undemocratic, or otherwise called 'framing', 'setting the goal posts' to 'game' the rules into your favour. Or cheating, or fraud, or whatever. Which means candidates prepared that way, and then presented as the only option(s) to give the deceived masses the illusion of choice is simply a lie. edit: Of course this is not exclusive to the US, let's just say they lead the market of political BS, k?
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  > if you have institutions which push policies, empower candidates beyond the scenes There's nothing in your article that suggested that the organization in question was some sort of propaganda arm of the US government, and there's nothing undemocratic about advocating for one's interests. You might not agree with the advocacy, but "democracy" doesn't demand agreement. > Of course this is not exclusive to the US, let's just say they lead the market of political BS, k? I don't buy this at all. There are nations with actual propaganda departments, state-run censorship, bot nets, etc who actually directly attempt to influence elections. Like all other countries, the US does advocate for its own interests abroad--this is called "diplomacy" and it's generally the least-bad kind of advocacy. However, unlike other countries, the US does possess a lot of clout (the world depends on America in large part for security and prosperity, however loath we are to admit that America or Americans serve a useful purpose).
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    By the great gods of Gonzo! I'm not here to spoon feed, mentor, or lecture you on every single point you question. Furthermore it would be disrespectful to disturb your blissful ignorance. Dream in peace.
  - Lammy 5y ago
    > There's nothing in your article that suggested that the organization in question was some sort of propaganda arm of the US government Yeah besides the name I guess https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanticism
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      I skimmed your link as well. If there’s something particularly damning about Atlanticism, it’s not jumping out at me. People keep sharing innocuous wikipedia links and then dropping the mic dramatically.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
        Well.. maybe they had another version in mind, and just posted the english one for ease of use, without realising it lacks the important section from their language? Try [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantiker#Kritik https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantiker#Kritik and use some translation like [2] https://www.deepl.com/translator https://www.deepl.com/translator [3] https://translate.google.com https://translate.google.com [4] https://translate.yandex.com https://translate.yandex.com They all suffice. Got the gist?
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        Could be, but it's not my problem. If they can't be bothered to paste the right link or a relevant snippet, I'm not going to do their work for them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        5y ago
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  Literally every single political institution in the world, from sports clubs to town councils to national governments, have back channels and organizations that promote agendas. It is the means by which those agendas get put through governments that make something legitimate or not. But we're going down a rabbit hole. The point is that Russia now has more economic leverage over eastern Europe, and for what?