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The issue with free movement of labor is that it only works out well across a region with standardized pay rates. Otherwise corporations will import labor from

The issue with free movement of labor is that it only works out well across a region with standardized pay rates. Otherwise corporations will import labor from the low-cost zones and fire their high-cost local workers. This causes a lot of anger, see Brexit.

notatoad 5y ago
Yeah, that's what people keep saying. But if it were true, the staff shortages post-brexit would be easily resolved by simply paying a bit more. The continued staff shortages would seem to mean that it's not simply an issue of pay, and there aren't enough Brits willing to do those jobs.
- djhworld 5y ago
  > that it's not simply an issue of pay, and there aren't enough Brits willing to do those jobs. From what I've read (and take this with a pinch of salt) there are a lot of licensed HGV drivers in the UK who don't drive anymore, with common reasons being long, unsociable working hours, management that treat you like dirt, shitty rules around where they can park to take rest stops with substandard (typical everywhere in the UK...) facilities, and pay that hasn't risen in decades. This, combined with not enough younger folk taking up the job, along with Brexit, has led to a shortage
  - sockpuppet_12 5y ago
    This seems like a case of trying to cram the ruinous practices back into pandora's box, which has been leaking for a very long time. Transport companies have had a long time to optimise their extraction of value from cheap, easily exploitable employees from overseas. The easily exploitable workers aren't available anymore, so the companies who exploited them will have to change their exploitation habits if they want to fill their positions from the remaining labour pool. Of course a landed citizen isn't going to sign up to be treated unfairly if they don't have to, they're not as desperate and therefore not as exploitable. I imagine they're reading the terms of employment on these positions with disgust, and so they should.
    - Closi 5y ago
      There has been a driver shortage for years - a whole variety of factors have just all come along at the same time to knock it over the edge and cause all the resulting chaos.
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      Problem is that these transport companies are one of the most affected industries by international and open markets. That had severe repercussions for prices for any form of logistics. Transportation is dirt cheap and highly competitive and that has an effect on wages of course.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
shmatt 5y ago
And yet the truck driver openings, now that the low cost workers are gone, have yet to see a significant pay rise to bring in locals that have never considered the job until now And if, lets say, the corporations will now have to pay double for UK citizens to drive the gas delivery trucks. Wouldn't that raise the gas prices quite considerably? The world outside the UK is working pretty well with labor import. Even a certain US ex-president was speaking about how bad it was, while he was requesting hundreds of low cost work visas for his vineyards (got to keep costs low...)
- heisenzombie 5y ago
  > Wouldn't that raise the gas prices quite considerably? I would be surprised if the distribution cost of petrol was more than 2% of the pump price. Quick googling gives numbers of around 2p/litre, around 5 years ago. That's total distribution costs, not just driver pay. This suggests that doubling the pay of the truck drivers would make a much less than 2% increase in pump prices.
madaxe_again 5y ago
An outcome of free movement is flattening of income distribution across geography. Nowhere stays cheap, as wage inflation hits, and nowhere stays expensive, as employers move to cheaper places. Sure, cities will be wealthier than the regions, but ultimately a city in Romania and a city in sweden, infrastructure and education being also equalised through structural funds, should present equal opportunities.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  What is the advantage for Sweden here when they have higher wages and can people and cities in Romania compete against the Swedish ones to not pull the most educated out of the country? Completely disregarding the language barriers, which are quite extensive so practically freedom of movement would be easy for corporations to use the benefits but not the wider population even if you neglect family ties. These questions need to be answered and I don't think the educational elite has an answer without painting flowery pictures not too many might be inclined to believe.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

notatoad 5y ago

Yeah, that's what people keep saying. But if it were true, the staff shortages post-brexit would be easily resolved by simply paying a bit more. The continued staff shortages would seem to mean that it's not simply an issue of pay, and there aren't enough Brits willing to do those jobs.

djhworld 5y ago
> that it's not simply an issue of pay, and there aren't enough Brits willing to do those jobs. From what I've read (and take this with a pinch of salt) there are a lot of licensed HGV drivers in the UK who don't drive anymore, with common reasons being long, unsociable working hours, management that treat you like dirt, shitty rules around where they can park to take rest stops with substandard (typical everywhere in the UK...) facilities, and pay that hasn't risen in decades. This, combined with not enough younger folk taking up the job, along with Brexit, has led to a shortage
- sockpuppet_12 5y ago
  This seems like a case of trying to cram the ruinous practices back into pandora's box, which has been leaking for a very long time. Transport companies have had a long time to optimise their extraction of value from cheap, easily exploitable employees from overseas. The easily exploitable workers aren't available anymore, so the companies who exploited them will have to change their exploitation habits if they want to fill their positions from the remaining labour pool. Of course a landed citizen isn't going to sign up to be treated unfairly if they don't have to, they're not as desperate and therefore not as exploitable. I imagine they're reading the terms of employment on these positions with disgust, and so they should.
  - Closi 5y ago
    There has been a driver shortage for years - a whole variety of factors have just all come along at the same time to knock it over the edge and cause all the resulting chaos.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    Problem is that these transport companies are one of the most affected industries by international and open markets. That had severe repercussions for prices for any form of logistics. Transportation is dirt cheap and highly competitive and that has an effect on wages of course.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

shmatt 5y ago

And yet the truck driver openings, now that the low cost workers are gone, have yet to see a significant pay rise to bring in locals that have never considered the job until now And if, lets say, the corporations will now have to pay double for UK citizens to drive the gas delivery trucks. Wouldn't that raise the gas prices quite considerably? The world outside the UK is working pretty well with labor import. Even a certain US ex-president was speaking about how bad it was, while he was requesting hundreds of low cost work visas for his vineyards (got to keep costs low...)

heisenzombie 5y ago
> Wouldn't that raise the gas prices quite considerably? I would be surprised if the distribution cost of petrol was more than 2% of the pump price. Quick googling gives numbers of around 2p/litre, around 5 years ago. That's total distribution costs, not just driver pay. This suggests that doubling the pay of the truck drivers would make a much less than 2% increase in pump prices.

madaxe_again 5y ago

An outcome of free movement is flattening of income distribution across geography. Nowhere stays cheap, as wage inflation hits, and nowhere stays expensive, as employers move to cheaper places. Sure, cities will be wealthier than the regions, but ultimately a city in Romania and a city in sweden, infrastructure and education being also equalised through structural funds, should present equal opportunities.

raxxorrax 5y ago
What is the advantage for Sweden here when they have higher wages and can people and cities in Romania compete against the Swedish ones to not pull the most educated out of the country? Completely disregarding the language barriers, which are quite extensive so practically freedom of movement would be easy for corporations to use the benefits but not the wider population even if you neglect family ties. These questions need to be answered and I don't think the educational elite has an answer without painting flowery pictures not too many might be inclined to believe.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]