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Unlike the toilet paper panic buying there is limited capacity people can buy, so I would expect this to naturally end short term when people don’t have capacit
by TomGullen 5y ago
Unlike the toilet paper panic buying there is limited capacity people can buy, so I would expect this to naturally end short term when people don’t have capacity to buy any more.
What concerns me is government planning to address this looks a lot more forward looking than a few days/a week, so I can see it getting worse.
Interesting how the government say it’s not a shortage, if the refineries were running low you wouldn’t say there’s no shortage as there’s plenty of crude lying under the sea bed. If I can’t buy petrol at the pump then for all intents and purposes it is a shortage.
I feel like there’s a chance here there is a systemic issue and “panic buyers” are a convenient scape goat as I think most people are just filling up to the top instead of half way, or going a little earlier than they would otherwise. No actors doing this would class themselves as panic buyers, but there’s a lot of vitriol and anger towards the concept of a panic buyer which is a convenient diversion away from other causes.
- HPsquared 5y ago"Nothing to see here, please disperse"
- jack_riminton 5y agoRefusal to send the army in reeks of BoJo not making a decision until the crisis couldn't get any worse and so he's forced to
- bayesian_horse 5y agoI think it was unclear as to why there is no gas. Is it because there are no drivers to drive the gas to the stations or because the general energy supply for GB currently sucks?
- jack_riminton 5y agoThe official line is that there is a lack of truck drivers, which is mostly true because Brexit has prevented a lot of the foreign drivers from working
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- heywherelogingo 5y agoNo mention of lockdown effects detracts from the credibility of that comment.
- bayesian_horse 5y agono other country with a lockdown is having the same problem, and GB sort of stopped their lockdowns a while ago, didn't they? Workers aren't prevented from travelling because of Covid restrictions, but Visa restrictions do apply. Also it's not a good prospect to move to a country where you feel like you are on some kind of a migratory ejection seat...
- timellis-smith 5y agoEurope also has a shortage https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9946817/amp/Now-lorry-driver-shortage-hits-Europe-Germany-France-Spain-suffer-shortfall-400-000.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl... This is widely reported across a number of publications
- drcongo 5y agoIs this the most trustworthy source you could find?
- timellis-smith 5y agoCan't comment on the child of the post for some reason. Here is another source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/24/dont-blame-brexit-driver-shortages/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/24/dont-blame-b... Somehow it seems on these forums that any left leaning publication is immediately trusted but any right leaning one immediately distrusted.
- 5y ago
- dazc 5y agoCurrently tanker drivers need extra certification but are still treated badly by employers. There is currently high demand for HGV drivers generally with big incentives to move employers. Therefore, some fuel tanker drivers have left to work elsewhere and can not be so easily replaced. Lots of truck drivers have left the industry after suffering years of poor pay and conditions. The licencing scheme is not so simple that they can return on a whim either.
- gertrunde 5y agoOriginally, there were a handful (like 3-6 or so) stations that ran out of fuel due to a BP driver shortage. The resulting media-fuelled spate of panic buying overloaded normal delivery cycles. There is plenty of product stored at the ports/refineries themselves.
- ed_elliott_asc 5y agoThe government really mis managed this - they keep saying there is no shortage yet all the stations have run out - they can’t spin this and ignore it until the next disaster distracts from this disaster.
- CodeGlitch 5y agoI'm sorry but when you have selfish (and idiotic) people like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkRX2p9wH4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kkRX2p9wH4 ..how is the government supposed to manage this? The messages have been "just buy fuel normally" - but people are ignoring it. It's the same problem as happened with toilet paper, people will start hording whatever is now limited.
- joeberon 5y ago> when people don’t have capacity to buy any more. I'm confused, can't they just fill up jerry cans, or if garages aren't allowing this, just siphon the fuel out of the car at home?
- rspeele 5y agoSure, but anecdotally, most people don't have gas cans of significant capacity and many don't have any cans at all. I live in the American south and we had a gas shortage like this in the spring due to a ransomware attack. There were pictures on social media of people trying to fill up all sorts of nonstandard containers ranging from buckets to grocery bags (yep). But I think the people who would buy gas cans for this, or try such silly alternative storage methods, are a minority and most won't expend the effort to pursue additional storage capacity beyond their vehicle's tank.
- teeray 5y agoYou’re technically limited to storing a certain quantity of fuel on your property without a license. Whether a regulator could detect this is another question.
- aaronmdjones 5y agoIt's 30 litres, for reference.
- BuildTheRobots 5y agoJust to clarify: Petrol and Kerosene (parafin) are limited to 10L in a plastic jerry-can, 20L in a metal can and you're limited to 2 containers or 30L maximum. Diesel is exempt. I can't remember if this applies to limits you can transport in a vehicle or if it applies to storage at a home/work location as well.
- rhino369 5y agoJerrycans are about 5 gallons and people tend to have only 1-3 of them. The nationwide capacity to store gas (in reasonable contentions) is probably pretty low compared to average sales.
- josephcsible 5y ago> Unlike the toilet paper panic buying there is limited capacity people can buy, so I would expect this to naturally end short term when people don’t have capacity to buy any more. Didn't the Colonial Pipeline attack have people filling up plastic bags with gas?
- nmeofthestate 5y agoI think the photo you reference that was going round at the time was an old one from Brazil or Mexico or somewhere.
- oxfordmale 5y agoThere is pictures in the Daily Mail of people emptying water bottles and filling them with petrol.
- jhugo 5y agoThis is very common throughout Southeast Asia as short-to-medium-term fuel storage, I imagine elsewhere too.
- captaincaveman 5y agoI did this once in Malaysia as the piece of crap car I rented ran out of fuel 5 minutes after leaving depot. Walked to petrol station, tried to fill up Coke bottle with petrol, which created a wonderful petrol fountain/volcano all over me .. then a nice long walk back to the car in mid day sun ... was still a great trip :P
- throwawayboise 5y agoHave you ever tried doing that? It works for about 5 minutes until the bag disolves.
- sgt101 5y agoerrm, no - I am concerned to note that you obviously have.
- humps 5y agoAs Brian Madderson, chairman of the Petrol Retailers Association, explained on BBC Breakfast this morning. This happened because a BP document was leaked to the media, which unsurprisingly got them excited about a possible shortage and led to the panic buying. Madderson also said the industry is used to dealing with about 2 million liters of fuel being required a week, but that's with typical weekly fill-ups. He suggested that's effectively doubled now as people fill their tanks to the brim, which you can't keep up with under any circumstances. So there's no shortage in the industry, only a shortage created by consumers changing their behaviour overnight.
- listless 5y agoSo the trucker shortage is a false conclusion? Cause this article states that’s the definitive cause. It reads to me like an axe to grind with Brexit and trying to tie this crisis to that political football.
- nicoburns 5y agoThe trucker shortage has so far caused a minor shortage, but has the potential to cause worse shortages over time unless the trucker shortage is dealt with. The panic buying is making that all much worse and speeding up the timeline.
- humps 5y agoThere's a general shortage of HGV drivers across Europe at the moment. The shortage didn't cause fuel pumps to run dry, though. It was the result of panic caused by the media after they got their hands on a document, with the initial news being that BP had closed 5 petrol stations. It escalated very quickly from there due to relentless media coverage. You could certainly argue the shortage of drivers made it much more difficult to cope with the panic once it was in full flow.
- tupac_speedrap 5y agoThe lorry drivers that drive fuel lorries have different certification than general HGV drivers and there has never been a shortage of these lorry drivers.
- chrononaut 5y ago> ..as I think most people are just filling up to the top instead of half way.. Perhaps I am missing something here, but are you referring to vehicles in this context? Is it not common to always fill your tank to the top?
- lpapez 5y agoDepends a lot on the social status I think. Growing up in a poor household, we never worried about gas prices. When the salary came, we would buy 200HRK worth of petrol and use the car as long as it had petrol. After that, you walk. It was never a full tank and these days its not even half a tank.
- stinkytaco 5y agoI think about myself as a pretty standard middle class person who's obviously empathetic to those who have less. But this proves how easy it is to be out of touch an not even realize it. I really had no idea. I just assumed when you filled, you filled all the way.
- mattowen_uk 5y agoUnless your petrol station is on one of your regular routes, it's false economy not to fill up completely when you have an empty tank, otherwise you are incurring an extra trip to the petrol station. Of course if you can't afford a full tank, and are living hand to mouth each month/week, then you are in the poverty trap where everything is a percentage more expensive for you overall.
- gifnamething 5y agoBut the efficiency is lower driving around with a full tank.
- effingwewt 5y agoI think not. With a full tank there is less room for fumes to expand. I believe less fuel in the tank means worse fuel economy. Found this[1] from a quick search. [1] https://www.carsforsale.com/how-to/5-simple-reasons-to-keep-your-gas-tank-full/#:~:text=A%20lighter%20load%20does%20require,fuel%20tank%20is%20not%20significant.&text=per%20gallon)%2C%20so%20even%20in,tank%20can%20increase%20fuel%20evaporation https://www.carsforsale.com/how-to/5-simple-reasons-to-keep-....
- 015a 5y agoThis sounds like the classic establishment divert-and-divide playbook for managing public outrage. Come up with some reasonable story which explains the problem by redirecting outrage at average people. Make sure we stay mad at each other. Lately far too many of these playbooks have been focused on suppressing the systemic mistreatment of the working class. Fuel isn't running low because we can't find enough truck drivers due to systemic underpayment and overwork; its low because people are panic buying. Schools cant find enough teachers not because of underpayment and overwork; its because of right-wing pushback against mask mandates, people are scared to return to the classroom. Hospital ICUs aren't overflowing because of a critical care staff shortage due to systemic underpayment and overwork; its because of the unvaccinated. The unfortunate reality is, these public relations control strategies work because there is some element of truth to Their explanation. Rarely do problems boil down to one solution; and if They can keep focus on the one, small element of the problem that encourages Us to stay mad at each-other, They don't have to worry about solving the systemic issues, built-up over decades, which anyone with half a brain could have seen coming.