7 ms·

I wonder if this will impact productivity in an unexpected way. When you disclose the numbers by which you "track" people, people will find ways to maximize th

I wonder if this will impact productivity in an unexpected way. When you disclose the numbers by which you "track" people, people will find ways to maximize those numbers without necessarily maximizing output. But then, is there a good alternative? Big tech asked for this by being extremely non-transparent and mistreating people. While I agree with the intent, I don't think simple solutions like these are necessarily the best ones to solve the problem.

ganzuul 5y ago
They had the opportunity to solve their own problem. They didn't. Perhaps in the future they will perform better.
- pbaka 5y ago
  --- Beginning of an imagination exercise --- As I age, nearing 50, my bladder is getting weaker. I cannot outperform the younger folks who can hold it for four hours. Should I, as an obviously unperforming resource, save up for a electro-mechanical bladder implant to replace my biological one ? Does the company offer me a savings plan for the same ? Or is it paid from the fused unemployment/health improvement fund of the state where my fulfillment center is located ? How will I manage maintenance payments in 30 years, after the rest of my body is too old for this warehouse job ? Then, of course, I have that auto-immune asthma since the lockdowns of 2022. I remember it like yesterday. I wasn't allowed in school (that was before virtuaducation). I didn't build up an immunity to basic flu, and was wrecked by a pneumonia when I started school. Never really recovered... Then it turned out the 6 vaccine shots had strange interactions with my immune system five years after the troubles ended. My body never quite worked as it should. I always had strange "after-diseases"... For the last three years, there was some stuff my body didn't like in the yearly combine-shots, ended up in the Hospitrailer, again, in coma for five days. The Autodoc said next time might be fatal. My work.pad shows me alerts from the warehouse AI that I might not be allowed on the floor next year if I don't solve the problem - both because of regulation and work time lost. The problem is, antihistamites (yeah, funny branding for those histamine dispensing nanobots) cant solve work with my immune problem. My "Pearly Melinda Gates" insurance's doctorobot said I don't have premiums accrued to pay for the cloned organ assays needed to see what part of my immune system doesn't like it. I even have less money for the immune reprogramming therapy. It's three years wages... It suggested me sell or collateralize the home I inherited. Wheesh, 12% interest. That's steep... Maybe I should just give up, and go on that famed UBI ? Those container-box habunits don't look too bad, and the virtual immersion gear is included in the monthly stipend. Just don't get caught inside when the chlore/fluoride autowash kicks in, hahaha. Then again, I'm not sure. After it proved financially impossible to sustain in the 2040's, it's now basically just food and water ration QR stamps. It's like in the time of my grandparents in the 1980's, except the monthly syntheclothing you receive are soooo butt ugly, not even classy with those huge shoulderpads. And you can't even modify the unitransracesex cut of the garment... it's against the law, as it's state property, because it could differentiate people... To be honest, it's not a future I'm looking forwards to... but at the same time, I don't want to become like the crazy homeless old man outside the warehouse with his "Rage Against the Machines" sign... --- End of imagination exercise ---
cowsandmilk 5y ago
Fulfillment centers have stand up twice a day where they disclose these numbers to everyone. And it is already well known that people try to turn away tasks that hurt their rates. Stowing 30 gift cards gives you much higher rates than stowing 30 tea kettles.
- Closi 5y ago
  The KPIs which are used to track performance at the depot level are different to those used to manage at a colleague level. I work in logistics consulting (including WMS config) and used to work in a company that had very in depth performance management calculations - and it did account for things like the size of items to be stowed. This is standard functionality now in tier-1 warehouse management systems. Basically there are two parts - goal setting where the system works out how long a task should take (based on distance, acceleration for the equipment type being used, product characteristics, level of picker experience, fatigue etc) and then there is a performance calculation based on a re-calculated target time based on what actually happened and how long it actually took (usually a %). You have to recalculate the target to account for the fact that, for instance, the object could have been stowed at a different location than the system estimated if put away is system directed. While an individual worker might get a %, a more typical department kpi will be items stowed per hour for instance. This is because these calculated KPIs are terrible for management of overall site performance because they only measure how ‘hard’ you are working, not how smart you are working (eg you might be generating lots of unnecessary travel but still scoring high in the %).
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    These KPI are a new perversion of our industry and certainly have no benefit to healthy working conditions at all.
    - Closi 5y ago
      Eh, I'm not sure if they are that new, they have been around at least 15 years as far as I know. And some sort of half-version of this has been going for decades. In my first warehouse job we used to have a legacy warehouse system but had worked out performance targets which varied by the make-up of work you got (e.g. a combination of total weight picked, types of order you had picked, orderlines picked and units picked). IMO the only difference is that these new algorithms are generally 'fairer' (the old issue was that rogue department managers could to give preferential treatment to some employees, or put them on the 'best' jobs) but they are also more complex and opaque, which leads to employee mistrust. Where I worked a union actually audited the calculation so it is possible to do this in a somewhat 'open' way, although the problem with opening the algorithm up to everyone is that it is complex and can be easily misunderstood/misinterpreted, particularly if you do not have training in how it all works (which then also requires WMS training!). There were always misconceptions with how the calculation works, because all users saw was a rolled-up number and it's quite a complex thing to understand (even department managers would describe how it works wrongly, and the union would also describe it wrongly, which would confuse people further which obviously isn't a good place to be).
raxxorrax 5y ago
> But then, is there a good alternative? Are you serious? Defining goals and think about consequences for your workers when there are acute problems. Otherwise you just put pressure on your workers for no reason at all.

ganzuul 5y ago

They had the opportunity to solve their own problem. They didn't. Perhaps in the future they will perform better.

pbaka 5y ago
--- Beginning of an imagination exercise --- As I age, nearing 50, my bladder is getting weaker. I cannot outperform the younger folks who can hold it for four hours. Should I, as an obviously unperforming resource, save up for a electro-mechanical bladder implant to replace my biological one ? Does the company offer me a savings plan for the same ? Or is it paid from the fused unemployment/health improvement fund of the state where my fulfillment center is located ? How will I manage maintenance payments in 30 years, after the rest of my body is too old for this warehouse job ? Then, of course, I have that auto-immune asthma since the lockdowns of 2022. I remember it like yesterday. I wasn't allowed in school (that was before virtuaducation). I didn't build up an immunity to basic flu, and was wrecked by a pneumonia when I started school. Never really recovered... Then it turned out the 6 vaccine shots had strange interactions with my immune system five years after the troubles ended. My body never quite worked as it should. I always had strange "after-diseases"... For the last three years, there was some stuff my body didn't like in the yearly combine-shots, ended up in the Hospitrailer, again, in coma for five days. The Autodoc said next time might be fatal. My work.pad shows me alerts from the warehouse AI that I might not be allowed on the floor next year if I don't solve the problem - both because of regulation and work time lost. The problem is, antihistamites (yeah, funny branding for those histamine dispensing nanobots) cant solve work with my immune problem. My "Pearly Melinda Gates" insurance's doctorobot said I don't have premiums accrued to pay for the cloned organ assays needed to see what part of my immune system doesn't like it. I even have less money for the immune reprogramming therapy. It's three years wages... It suggested me sell or collateralize the home I inherited. Wheesh, 12% interest. That's steep... Maybe I should just give up, and go on that famed UBI ? Those container-box habunits don't look too bad, and the virtual immersion gear is included in the monthly stipend. Just don't get caught inside when the chlore/fluoride autowash kicks in, hahaha. Then again, I'm not sure. After it proved financially impossible to sustain in the 2040's, it's now basically just food and water ration QR stamps. It's like in the time of my grandparents in the 1980's, except the monthly syntheclothing you receive are soooo butt ugly, not even classy with those huge shoulderpads. And you can't even modify the unitransracesex cut of the garment... it's against the law, as it's state property, because it could differentiate people... To be honest, it's not a future I'm looking forwards to... but at the same time, I don't want to become like the crazy homeless old man outside the warehouse with his "Rage Against the Machines" sign... --- End of imagination exercise ---

cowsandmilk 5y ago

Fulfillment centers have stand up twice a day where they disclose these numbers to everyone. And it is already well known that people try to turn away tasks that hurt their rates. Stowing 30 gift cards gives you much higher rates than stowing 30 tea kettles.

Closi 5y ago
The KPIs which are used to track performance at the depot level are different to those used to manage at a colleague level. I work in logistics consulting (including WMS config) and used to work in a company that had very in depth performance management calculations - and it did account for things like the size of items to be stowed. This is standard functionality now in tier-1 warehouse management systems. Basically there are two parts - goal setting where the system works out how long a task should take (based on distance, acceleration for the equipment type being used, product characteristics, level of picker experience, fatigue etc) and then there is a performance calculation based on a re-calculated target time based on what actually happened and how long it actually took (usually a %). You have to recalculate the target to account for the fact that, for instance, the object could have been stowed at a different location than the system estimated if put away is system directed. While an individual worker might get a %, a more typical department kpi will be items stowed per hour for instance. This is because these calculated KPIs are terrible for management of overall site performance because they only measure how ‘hard’ you are working, not how smart you are working (eg you might be generating lots of unnecessary travel but still scoring high in the %).
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  These KPI are a new perversion of our industry and certainly have no benefit to healthy working conditions at all.
  - Closi 5y ago
    Eh, I'm not sure if they are that new, they have been around at least 15 years as far as I know. And some sort of half-version of this has been going for decades. In my first warehouse job we used to have a legacy warehouse system but had worked out performance targets which varied by the make-up of work you got (e.g. a combination of total weight picked, types of order you had picked, orderlines picked and units picked). IMO the only difference is that these new algorithms are generally 'fairer' (the old issue was that rogue department managers could to give preferential treatment to some employees, or put them on the 'best' jobs) but they are also more complex and opaque, which leads to employee mistrust. Where I worked a union actually audited the calculation so it is possible to do this in a somewhat 'open' way, although the problem with opening the algorithm up to everyone is that it is complex and can be easily misunderstood/misinterpreted, particularly if you do not have training in how it all works (which then also requires WMS training!). There were always misconceptions with how the calculation works, because all users saw was a rolled-up number and it's quite a complex thing to understand (even department managers would describe how it works wrongly, and the union would also describe it wrongly, which would confuse people further which obviously isn't a good place to be).

raxxorrax 5y ago

> But then, is there a good alternative? Are you serious? Defining goals and think about consequences for your workers when there are acute problems. Otherwise you just put pressure on your workers for no reason at all.