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> others might literally have their life depended on the service working If your life literally depends on a service, make sure to pay for that service. Also,

> others might literally have their life depended on the service working If your life literally depends on a service, make sure to pay for that service. Also, make sure to have a backup.

einpoklum 5y ago
Many services your life depends on can't be paid for, or rather - you can't decide whether and how much you pay for them, and thus cannot increase their reliability through payment. One set of examples is online services and apps like Facebook, GMail, WhatsApp and such (although you could argue whether your life actually depends on any of these). Another set of examples are things like transportation infrastructure, fire-fighting services, etc.
- donkeyd 5y ago
  Fun facts: - I pay for mail service from Google. - I don't depend on whatsapp. I have multiple alternatives, including SMS. - I still have Facebook and LinkedIn accounts that I never actually use. - I have multiple fire extinguishers, because I don't depend on fire fighters to arrive on time, they're a last resort. My biggest dependency, by far, is the power grid. I really need to look into battery storage for my solar. Because my life literally depends on that... Ooh. And the supply chain for groceries I guess.
MrDresden 5y ago
While you are correct, I just want to clarify that by that I was talking about people living as subjects of totalitarian regimes or in places where their lives may truly be on the line if what they say in private would ever get out. These individuals may not have the means or the option of paying for the service (either due to being blocked or by potentially exposing them selves to said regime if they would).
- caeril 5y ago
  This isn't really the primary issue with Signal, as the protocol is pretty well audited, tested, and cryptanalyzed. THE issue with Signal is using real phone numbers as identifiers. I know this point has been made repeatedly, but it's important to beat the drum, since it's recommended for journalists and dissidents, and that this "feature" will quite possibly get you killed if you're a dissident in a totalitarian system with a very simple two-part process: 1. All it takes is ONE of your fellow dissidents to turn snitch (or be tortured, or have their phone cracked) and disclose all their contacts. 2. Burners are NOT anonymous. Everything from location analysis to CCTV footage from the physical place you bought the SIM will give you away. Signal is an obvious honeypot. Moxie's total refusal to even allow the option to use throwaway identifiers while burning precious development time on silly things like emoji support makes their purpose very evident. Sure, use Signal to send cat pics. But stay far, far, far away if your life or freedom is at risk.
  - MrDresden 5y ago
    I agree with you. But that doesn't change the fact that there are non technical people who are using Signal in places where they believe it will protect them. And I am not cynical enough to be ready to say that they are not being protected in some way by using Signal rather than say email/telegram/whatsapp/facebook etc. But the points you raise stand, and I agree. I would never use Signal for things that are highly sensitive. But we are tech literate individuals. We are a wast minority.
tw04 5y ago
So what is the paid alternative encrypted messaging platform that has any uptime sla?
- xchaotic 5y ago
  How about Element Matrix Services (EMS) ? Their Gold and Platinum plans have SLAs
  - tw04 5y ago
    Gold is an SLA of one business day which basically makes it a non-starter. Platinum - maybe? But I'm guessing based on how they have it phrased that your commit will measure in the thousands of dollars a month minimum if they'd even entertain you as a private individual. In their own words: >For governments, federated organisations & regulated industries
Koshkin 5y ago
But you can't sue them when you are dead.

> others might literally have their life depended on the service working If your life literally depends on a service, make sure to pay for that service. Also, make sure to have a backup.

einpoklum 5y ago

Many services your life depends on can't be paid for, or rather - you can't decide whether and how much you pay for them, and thus cannot increase their reliability through payment. One set of examples is online services and apps like Facebook, GMail, WhatsApp and such (although you could argue whether your life actually depends on any of these). Another set of examples are things like transportation infrastructure, fire-fighting services, etc.

donkeyd 5y ago
Fun facts: - I pay for mail service from Google. - I don't depend on whatsapp. I have multiple alternatives, including SMS. - I still have Facebook and LinkedIn accounts that I never actually use. - I have multiple fire extinguishers, because I don't depend on fire fighters to arrive on time, they're a last resort. My biggest dependency, by far, is the power grid. I really need to look into battery storage for my solar. Because my life literally depends on that... Ooh. And the supply chain for groceries I guess.

MrDresden 5y ago

While you are correct, I just want to clarify that by that I was talking about people living as subjects of totalitarian regimes or in places where their lives may truly be on the line if what they say in private would ever get out. These individuals may not have the means or the option of paying for the service (either due to being blocked or by potentially exposing them selves to said regime if they would).

caeril 5y ago
This isn't really the primary issue with Signal, as the protocol is pretty well audited, tested, and cryptanalyzed. THE issue with Signal is using real phone numbers as identifiers. I know this point has been made repeatedly, but it's important to beat the drum, since it's recommended for journalists and dissidents, and that this "feature" will quite possibly get you killed if you're a dissident in a totalitarian system with a very simple two-part process: 1. All it takes is ONE of your fellow dissidents to turn snitch (or be tortured, or have their phone cracked) and disclose all their contacts. 2. Burners are NOT anonymous. Everything from location analysis to CCTV footage from the physical place you bought the SIM will give you away. Signal is an obvious honeypot. Moxie's total refusal to even allow the option to use throwaway identifiers while burning precious development time on silly things like emoji support makes their purpose very evident. Sure, use Signal to send cat pics. But stay far, far, far away if your life or freedom is at risk.
- MrDresden 5y ago
  I agree with you. But that doesn't change the fact that there are non technical people who are using Signal in places where they believe it will protect them. And I am not cynical enough to be ready to say that they are not being protected in some way by using Signal rather than say email/telegram/whatsapp/facebook etc. But the points you raise stand, and I agree. I would never use Signal for things that are highly sensitive. But we are tech literate individuals. We are a wast minority.

tw04 5y ago

So what is the paid alternative encrypted messaging platform that has any uptime sla?

xchaotic 5y ago
How about Element Matrix Services (EMS) ? Their Gold and Platinum plans have SLAs
- tw04 5y ago
  Gold is an SLA of one business day which basically makes it a non-starter. Platinum - maybe? But I'm guessing based on how they have it phrased that your commit will measure in the thousands of dollars a month minimum if they'd even entertain you as a private individual. In their own words: >For governments, federated organisations & regulated industries

Koshkin 5y ago

But you can't sue them when you are dead.