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I'm sorry you're having that experience. DDD is specifically aimed at tackling complexity, as it says on the cover. Part of the problem is that complexity is re

I'm sorry you're having that experience. DDD is specifically aimed at tackling complexity, as it says on the cover. Part of the problem is that complexity is relative to the observer, how experienced they are in that particular domain, etc. Good abstractions make complexity manageable, bad ones create more complexity. And that's another problem: a domain might be quite straightforward but bad explanations, missing information, bad abstractions, etc can make it seem more complex. Your colleagues need to remember that DDD is supposed to be applied pragmatically. If the structure causes more navigation work than needed, simplify it. If the problem could be solved with a simple CRUD system, do that. If most of the problem is CRUD, but there's one particularly complex bit that changes a lot and requires a lot of flexibility, isolate that part, so that the simple and complex parts can have a simple integration, don't leak into each other, and can evolve at their own speeds.

rewma 5y ago
> I'm sorry you're having that experience. DDD is specifically aimed at tackling complexity, as it says on the cover. Part of the problem is that complexity is relative to the observer, how experienced they are in that particular domain, etc. I'd say part of the problem is that DDD critics conflate DDD with overly complex, enterprisey models that don't match their personal preferences on the acceptable tradeoffs between complexity and correctness. As DDD comes up sounding like too much work to implement too much complexity that brings too little value, they flag it as a concern. What I believe is missing from this discussion is the scenario where DDD practices are not followed and consequently teams are forced to iterate and reimplements projects or parts of it just to fit requirements that emerged because some aspects of the domain model weren't looked into. Design by accretion is largely accepted, as is technical debt, but they do have a cost.
- oscarcp 5y ago
  You make quite the point here. That is the advantage I see for DDD; you have dependency on service that may change, DDD will make your life easier when switching, otherwise there will be weeks of rewriting code. And what happens during transition times (thinking about CRM for example) where you have to keep connected to both systems?. This said, in my situation it's like trying to kill flies with a muon cannon (fyi. this gun is fictional and it's exaggerated to drive the point), it's cool'n's*it but the same could have been done with a newspaper or your hand. To maintain the muon cannon you need the entire Fermilab team, your hand... well, it's your hand. Apologies for the exaggeration, can't avoid it :D
- pydry 5y ago
  >I'd say part of the problem is that DDD critics conflate DDD with overly complex, enterprisey models Every text I've ever written on DDD has made it pretty clear that these patterns are at the very heart of what it is. I've never seen one that says "look, all this stuff is optional, write your software however, here's how to really get to grips with the domain model". I don't think it's the critics conflating. It is what it is.
arkh 5y ago
I think the main problem is the Blue Book (Domain Driven Design) contains mostly technical advice. If my memory is correct there's only one of the last chapter about the organizational aspect. Implementing DDD on the other hand is a lot better about this. Surely because it has been written 10 years later. So most people should start with it. But anyway when people say they're using DDD, if they can't point you to some domain experts, a dictionary of the ubiquitous language or a mapping of what they do they're not using DDD.

rewma 5y ago

> I'm sorry you're having that experience. DDD is specifically aimed at tackling complexity, as it says on the cover. Part of the problem is that complexity is relative to the observer, how experienced they are in that particular domain, etc. I'd say part of the problem is that DDD critics conflate DDD with overly complex, enterprisey models that don't match their personal preferences on the acceptable tradeoffs between complexity and correctness. As DDD comes up sounding like too much work to implement too much complexity that brings too little value, they flag it as a concern. What I believe is missing from this discussion is the scenario where DDD practices are not followed and consequently teams are forced to iterate and reimplements projects or parts of it just to fit requirements that emerged because some aspects of the domain model weren't looked into. Design by accretion is largely accepted, as is technical debt, but they do have a cost.

oscarcp 5y ago
You make quite the point here. That is the advantage I see for DDD; you have dependency on service that may change, DDD will make your life easier when switching, otherwise there will be weeks of rewriting code. And what happens during transition times (thinking about CRM for example) where you have to keep connected to both systems?. This said, in my situation it's like trying to kill flies with a muon cannon (fyi. this gun is fictional and it's exaggerated to drive the point), it's cool'n's*it but the same could have been done with a newspaper or your hand. To maintain the muon cannon you need the entire Fermilab team, your hand... well, it's your hand. Apologies for the exaggeration, can't avoid it :D
pydry 5y ago
>I'd say part of the problem is that DDD critics conflate DDD with overly complex, enterprisey models Every text I've ever written on DDD has made it pretty clear that these patterns are at the very heart of what it is. I've never seen one that says "look, all this stuff is optional, write your software however, here's how to really get to grips with the domain model". I don't think it's the critics conflating. It is what it is.

arkh 5y ago

I think the main problem is the Blue Book (Domain Driven Design) contains mostly technical advice. If my memory is correct there's only one of the last chapter about the organizational aspect. Implementing DDD on the other hand is a lot better about this. Surely because it has been written 10 years later. So most people should start with it. But anyway when people say they're using DDD, if they can't point you to some domain experts, a dictionary of the ubiquitous language or a mapping of what they do they're not using DDD.