4 ms·

Yeah, 1% actually seems shockingly high to me. Are there other products or entertainments in which 1 in 100 users have suicidal thoughts they attribute to the p

Yeah, 1% actually seems shockingly high to me. Are there other products or entertainments in which 1 in 100 users have suicidal thoughts they attribute to the product? I was surprised to see Facebook bragging that "only" 1%.

bostonsre 5y ago
At least drug companies give you a heads up that some products may give you suicidal thoughts. Seems shitty that Facebook hid this until they were caught.
- kevinmchugh 5y ago
  The drug companies have legal requirements to publicize side effects
  - bostonsre 5y ago
    Yea, definitely feels like there needs to be regulation around social media. Fb almost feels like the new Philip Morris. They may not give you cancer, but they have a product that affects the mental health of millions.
    - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
      Not just mental health. - Multi-level marketing ponzi schemes - Anti-vaccination - Far-right extremism - Islamic extremism - Totalitarian government political propaganda - Censorship of anti-totalitarian movements leading to incarceration and torture. All of these had an exponential growth amplification platform, all of these would have otherwise had an organic growth at best. Teen suicide is just one negative aspect that happened to be studied in more detail probably due to CYA liability more than anything else.
      - mavhc 5y ago
        Stop following idiots, I don't see any of that.
        harry8 5y ago
        As long as /you/ are all right there's no problem them. Done. Thanks. edit: I'm sorry the tone of that obviously rubbed me the wrong way. Let me try again. If you have personally been able to fully avoid direct contact all the suggested problems listed that actually doesn't make those problems cease to exist for others. Such problems also may affect you quite profoundly in an indirect fashion via people you love or society at large or a number of other vectors. I'd suggest that these problems are extremely likely to exist and more research needed on their full effect and indeed the trade offs involved in any suggested solutions to it. Your proffered solution of "don't follow idiots" probably isn't particularly useful to anyone. The majority of people would believe, just like you do, that they don't follow idiots.
        mavhc 5y ago
        If we can't trust people not to follow idiots, then we must find the idiots and stop them being publishers. Point is it's not the social media company's decisions that cause the problem, humans cause the problem. So in the end it's an absence of government overseeing the health of its people, because it decided to be involved in as little a way as possible. The internet does the same thing as any previous media, just better, faster, and governments aren't keeping pace, or being global. Facebook isn't broken, government is. If you want Facebook to be the new government, that's an interesting question.
        bostonsre 5y ago
        So you are saying that facebook has exactly zero moral obligation to do the right thing? They make instagram, they know instagram can cause suicidal thoughts in teens, the government hasn't regulated it yet, so facebook is in the clear? That sounds like a zuckerberg-y level denial and blame shifting. I don't think they should operate like philip morris, and I'd guess that some of their employees would agree or we wouldn't have even heard about this information.
mgraczyk 5y ago
It doesn't seem high to me. Almost 30% of people 18-24 claim to have seriously considered suicide as a result of the pandemic, for example https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm
- dataflow 5y ago
  >> Are there other products or entertainments > the pandemic You might be the first person on the planet who's found the pandemic to be entertaining (or a product...)
- Sebb767 5y ago
  If your bar for a consumer product (intended for leisure!) is to be better than an actual global catastrophe, there's nothing I could add to make it clearer that something is seriously wrong.
ta988 5y ago
Ask them the same thing about school, or living with their family members. Unfortunately environment can be extremely stressful to teens and it usually gets dismissed by adults because "they have been through it, it was not that bad" except that it was and still is a source of trauma for many people.
nowherebeen 5y ago
It’s disgusting how they are reducing human life to relative percentage of 1%. In absolute terms, there are 1 billion users meaning 10 million users have suicidal thoughts because of the app. That’s a large city population. NYC has 8.5 million population, imagine every single person in NYC is suicidal. That’s a frightening thought.
- mavhc 5y ago
  Not because of the app though, while using the app. The app isn't making causing those thoughts, society is. Society is promoting being attractive/thin/wealthy/always happy/being envious
  - nowherebeen 5y ago
    > The app isn't making causing those thoughts, society is. You are right in that the app isn't making it, but it is promoting it with their algorithm to maximize engagement.
    - mavhc 5y ago
      Their algorithm to maximize engagement automatically promotes what's popular. What's popular is a side effect of society and how human brains work. Every supermarket magazine is doing the same thing, just they're not as good at it.
      - nowherebeen 5y ago
        > Their algorithm to maximize engagement automatically promotes what's popular. No, their algorithm is maximizing conflict. There's no algorithm needed for what's popular. A 5 year old can write that algorithm. Go read up on research on what drives engagement on social media. Popular != maximum engagement.
        mavhc 5y ago
        Conflict is popular, there's more comments when people disagree. It's a very unintelligent way to measure popularity, number of comments, number of views. That's why the rest of the Facebook posts you see are "what was your favourite meal as a child?" etc with thousands of comments. The ones people think are phishing scams.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bostonsre 5y ago

At least drug companies give you a heads up that some products may give you suicidal thoughts. Seems shitty that Facebook hid this until they were caught.

kevinmchugh 5y ago
The drug companies have legal requirements to publicize side effects
- bostonsre 5y ago
  Yea, definitely feels like there needs to be regulation around social media. Fb almost feels like the new Philip Morris. They may not give you cancer, but they have a product that affects the mental health of millions.
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    Not just mental health. - Multi-level marketing ponzi schemes - Anti-vaccination - Far-right extremism - Islamic extremism - Totalitarian government political propaganda - Censorship of anti-totalitarian movements leading to incarceration and torture. All of these had an exponential growth amplification platform, all of these would have otherwise had an organic growth at best. Teen suicide is just one negative aspect that happened to be studied in more detail probably due to CYA liability more than anything else.
    - mavhc 5y ago
      Stop following idiots, I don't see any of that.
      - harry8 5y ago
        As long as /you/ are all right there's no problem them. Done. Thanks. edit: I'm sorry the tone of that obviously rubbed me the wrong way. Let me try again. If you have personally been able to fully avoid direct contact all the suggested problems listed that actually doesn't make those problems cease to exist for others. Such problems also may affect you quite profoundly in an indirect fashion via people you love or society at large or a number of other vectors. I'd suggest that these problems are extremely likely to exist and more research needed on their full effect and indeed the trade offs involved in any suggested solutions to it. Your proffered solution of "don't follow idiots" probably isn't particularly useful to anyone. The majority of people would believe, just like you do, that they don't follow idiots.
        mavhc 5y ago
        If we can't trust people not to follow idiots, then we must find the idiots and stop them being publishers. Point is it's not the social media company's decisions that cause the problem, humans cause the problem. So in the end it's an absence of government overseeing the health of its people, because it decided to be involved in as little a way as possible. The internet does the same thing as any previous media, just better, faster, and governments aren't keeping pace, or being global. Facebook isn't broken, government is. If you want Facebook to be the new government, that's an interesting question.
        bostonsre 5y ago
        So you are saying that facebook has exactly zero moral obligation to do the right thing? They make instagram, they know instagram can cause suicidal thoughts in teens, the government hasn't regulated it yet, so facebook is in the clear? That sounds like a zuckerberg-y level denial and blame shifting. I don't think they should operate like philip morris, and I'd guess that some of their employees would agree or we wouldn't have even heard about this information.

mgraczyk 5y ago

It doesn't seem high to me. Almost 30% of people 18-24 claim to have seriously considered suicide as a result of the pandemic, for example https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm

dataflow 5y ago
>> Are there other products or entertainments > the pandemic You might be the first person on the planet who's found the pandemic to be entertaining (or a product...)
Sebb767 5y ago
If your bar for a consumer product (intended for leisure!) is to be better than an actual global catastrophe, there's nothing I could add to make it clearer that something is seriously wrong.

ta988 5y ago

Ask them the same thing about school, or living with their family members. Unfortunately environment can be extremely stressful to teens and it usually gets dismissed by adults because "they have been through it, it was not that bad" except that it was and still is a source of trauma for many people.

nowherebeen 5y ago

It’s disgusting how they are reducing human life to relative percentage of 1%. In absolute terms, there are 1 billion users meaning 10 million users have suicidal thoughts because of the app. That’s a large city population. NYC has 8.5 million population, imagine every single person in NYC is suicidal. That’s a frightening thought.

mavhc 5y ago
Not because of the app though, while using the app. The app isn't making causing those thoughts, society is. Society is promoting being attractive/thin/wealthy/always happy/being envious
- nowherebeen 5y ago
  > The app isn't making causing those thoughts, society is. You are right in that the app isn't making it, but it is promoting it with their algorithm to maximize engagement.
  - mavhc 5y ago
    Their algorithm to maximize engagement automatically promotes what's popular. What's popular is a side effect of society and how human brains work. Every supermarket magazine is doing the same thing, just they're not as good at it.
    - nowherebeen 5y ago
      > Their algorithm to maximize engagement automatically promotes what's popular. No, their algorithm is maximizing conflict. There's no algorithm needed for what's popular. A 5 year old can write that algorithm. Go read up on research on what drives engagement on social media. Popular != maximum engagement.
      - mavhc 5y ago
        Conflict is popular, there's more comments when people disagree. It's a very unintelligent way to measure popularity, number of comments, number of views. That's why the rest of the Facebook posts you see are "what was your favourite meal as a child?" etc with thousands of comments. The ones people think are phishing scams.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]