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Another unrelated note: I'd say it's infeasible to improve US education that can produce population as good as importing the best and brightest mind from forei

Another unrelated note: I'd say it's infeasible to improve US education that can produce population as good as importing the best and brightest mind from foreign countries. Please note that I'm not against improving US education, but to think that we can improve it to the point that it can compete with importing the best mind from other countries is delusional. US has such a huge advantage on this part that an absurd green card system seems like a noise.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
paxys 5y ago
It's really a numbers game. Just China and India combined have 2.8 billion people, 10x more than USA. A lot of them are going to be geniuses. Since the 90s the USA has "won" by attracting the top talent of India, China and most of the rest of the world, resulting in a booming tech sector directly at the expense of those countries. Now in recent years immigration rules, politics and bureaucracy are making this less and less feasible, and you are already seeing the results. The next generation of teenagers worldwide are using TikTok, not Facebook or Instagram. Freshworks just had a $15B IPO and is shaking up the CRM market. There are countless other examples.
- ergocoder 5y ago
  US starts losing an edge, I agree. With this strange politics that is really anti high-quality immigrants. I'm one of those who moves to US from a worse country, and I can tell you that I'm much happier. In countries like China, India, and many other developing countries, every aspect (apart from my family/friend being there) is worse... much worse. While US won at the expense of those countries, individuals get huge upgrade to their lives.
adventured 5y ago
The US education system already produces people as good as the best minds from foreign countries. That has been the case for well over a century. It doesn't produce all the best minds, of course, no nation can do such a thing and that's why high-skill immigration is valuable whenever you can get it. The argument for the US taking in the best from around the world, is that more is better when it comes to that. The US is a massive, diverse place, filled with good and bad outcomes. Just as Europe or the EU are, just as Asia is. There is enormous poverty and tens of millions of poor education outcomes across Europe. There are literally over a billion very bad outcomes spread across Asia, Africa and Latin America in terms of poverty and education. Asia still has a billion people trapped in third world outcomes. The top quarter in the US will match up very well against the top quarter from most peer nations. There may be a few exceptions among tiny elite nations, like Switzerland, just due to the fact that 1/4 = 80+ million people in the US.
- ergocoder 5y ago
  > The argument for the US taking in the best from around the world, is that more is better when it comes to that. Yes, that is better for US, no? This is also why US tech industry is absolutely eclipsing every other country's tech company combined. They have the best mind from all over the world working for them. My main point is that you cannot improve education that your average citizen is better than the best and brightest from other countries. It is infeasible. Now my main question for US is: why do we want to import fewer brightest mind from other countries?
User23 5y ago
> I'd say it's infeasible to improve US education that can produce population as good as importing the best and brightest mind from foreign countries. While it certainly benefits you personally, can you see how offensive and frankly racist this is?
- ergocoder 5y ago
  Why is it racist?
  - User23 5y ago
    Because the majority of US citizens of school age are from historically disadvantaged minorities and you're saying they're just not good enough to compete with the East Asian global majority even with better education. In fact, you appear to be saying we shouldn't even bother to try and that people from wherever it is exactly you're from are innately superior. That's why it's racist and offensive.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - ryan93 5y ago
      There are almost 8 billion people in the world and 320 million in the US. Of course most talent is foreign. No one who wants green cards for engineers is arguing for a decrease in education funding
- lowkey_ 5y ago
  This is a curiously US-centric view to take that simultaneously also doesn't acknowledge the U.S.' advantages and history. The U.S. population is under 5% of the world population — our competitive advantage has always been our ability to poach the best and brightest from across the world by rewarding them appropriately. It's very reasonable to say that our population alone can't compete with the best and brightest of every other country in the world, and that it's more important to continue being a place that attracts immigration.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

paxys 5y ago

It's really a numbers game. Just China and India combined have 2.8 billion people, 10x more than USA. A lot of them are going to be geniuses. Since the 90s the USA has "won" by attracting the top talent of India, China and most of the rest of the world, resulting in a booming tech sector directly at the expense of those countries. Now in recent years immigration rules, politics and bureaucracy are making this less and less feasible, and you are already seeing the results. The next generation of teenagers worldwide are using TikTok, not Facebook or Instagram. Freshworks just had a $15B IPO and is shaking up the CRM market. There are countless other examples.

ergocoder 5y ago
US starts losing an edge, I agree. With this strange politics that is really anti high-quality immigrants. I'm one of those who moves to US from a worse country, and I can tell you that I'm much happier. In countries like China, India, and many other developing countries, every aspect (apart from my family/friend being there) is worse... much worse. While US won at the expense of those countries, individuals get huge upgrade to their lives.

adventured 5y ago

The US education system already produces people as good as the best minds from foreign countries. That has been the case for well over a century. It doesn't produce all the best minds, of course, no nation can do such a thing and that's why high-skill immigration is valuable whenever you can get it. The argument for the US taking in the best from around the world, is that more is better when it comes to that. The US is a massive, diverse place, filled with good and bad outcomes. Just as Europe or the EU are, just as Asia is. There is enormous poverty and tens of millions of poor education outcomes across Europe. There are literally over a billion very bad outcomes spread across Asia, Africa and Latin America in terms of poverty and education. Asia still has a billion people trapped in third world outcomes. The top quarter in the US will match up very well against the top quarter from most peer nations. There may be a few exceptions among tiny elite nations, like Switzerland, just due to the fact that 1/4 = 80+ million people in the US.

ergocoder 5y ago
> The argument for the US taking in the best from around the world, is that more is better when it comes to that. Yes, that is better for US, no? This is also why US tech industry is absolutely eclipsing every other country's tech company combined. They have the best mind from all over the world working for them. My main point is that you cannot improve education that your average citizen is better than the best and brightest from other countries. It is infeasible. Now my main question for US is: why do we want to import fewer brightest mind from other countries?

User23 5y ago

> I'd say it's infeasible to improve US education that can produce population as good as importing the best and brightest mind from foreign countries. While it certainly benefits you personally, can you see how offensive and frankly racist this is?

ergocoder 5y ago
Why is it racist?
- User23 5y ago
  Because the majority of US citizens of school age are from historically disadvantaged minorities and you're saying they're just not good enough to compete with the East Asian global majority even with better education. In fact, you appear to be saying we shouldn't even bother to try and that people from wherever it is exactly you're from are innately superior. That's why it's racist and offensive.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ryan93 5y ago
    There are almost 8 billion people in the world and 320 million in the US. Of course most talent is foreign. No one who wants green cards for engineers is arguing for a decrease in education funding
lowkey_ 5y ago
This is a curiously US-centric view to take that simultaneously also doesn't acknowledge the U.S.' advantages and history. The U.S. population is under 5% of the world population — our competitive advantage has always been our ability to poach the best and brightest from across the world by rewarding them appropriately. It's very reasonable to say that our population alone can't compete with the best and brightest of every other country in the world, and that it's more important to continue being a place that attracts immigration.