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> Mini has not heard any concerns from customers regarding the rear turn indicators I wouldn't expect them to: they cannot see their own turn signal lights whi

> Mini has not heard any concerns from customers regarding the rear turn indicators I wouldn't expect them to: they cannot see their own turn signal lights while driving. If they happen to be behind another Mini, they already know about it and it may not throw them off-guard like others who aren't familiar with it.

ThePadawan 5y ago
I do hope that all it takes is a few customers in a showroom asking the salesman "does it come without those stupid fucking indicators?"
- sircastor 5y ago
  FWIW, the answer to that question is yes. We bought a Mini a few years back and the Union Jack indicators were an upgrade (not a cheap one as I recall)
  - ThePadawan 5y ago
    Cool! I was trying to find out if they blinked in the weird arrow pattern by configuring one online, but it's impossible to tell (they're not shown blinking). Kinda surprising that they're not keen on selling potential customers on the upgrade.
  - massysett 5y ago
    Oh, I had no idea it’s supposed to be a Union Jack, though it makes sense after you said it. All it looked like to me was the designer intentionally doing something unbelievably stupid for no reason at all. I guess having a really dumb reason is slightly better.
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      It's very weird as a union jack - there is no central vertical bar.
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        The vertical bar looks to be used as a brake light, at least on the European version. There are plenty of image results searching "Mini rear lights" or similar.
- rconti 5y ago
  The salesperson doesn't care, and the dealership sells whatever the manufacturer ships to them. The Mini dealer isn't about to start stocking Kias instead of Minis.
  - ThePadawan 5y ago
    That's my question though. If anyone at Mini sees their 2019 model sold N in the first 6 months, and their 2021 model sold N/2, does anyone at corporate ask the dealerships to explain? I hope someone would care. What if 90% of potential buyers jumped off when they saw the mileage numbers. Or after the test drive. Or when they heard how long delivery would take. You know, any process optimization whatsoever.
    - rconti 5y ago
      I'm sure they do, but as a car enthusiast, we're forever frustrated, because the number of people who care is simply miniscule. I always bought used cars and it's frustrating that, of course, the manufacturers/dealers only care about people buying new. But now, having bought a new car, I realize they STILL don't care about my opinion, because people who care about the car-like-appliances they buy are in such a minority. Car dealerships have scads of people lining up to throw money at them for the privilege of having a new car. Look at how various non-enthusiast vehicles become trendy and command huge markups -- eg, the Kia Telluride became the "it" child taxi a few years ago (replacing the Honda CRV) and every self-respecting parent simply HAD to pay thousands over sticker to have the latest status symbol. Go try to buy a new car and the sales people simply don't seem to care about you wanting a difficult to find color combination from another dealer. They could source one if they wanted to, but they don't. They're catering to the masses who are simply to be allowed to buy a car sitting on the lot. They want to make as much money as possible from each sale; getting a marginal sale to someone who actually cares which option package or color they get simply isn't worth it. There are too few of "us" and too many of "them". In the US, it's incredibly rare to people actually order a car from the factory the way they want it, because nobody is willing to wait. The buyer accepts that they 'have to' buy whatever is on the lot that day. With most cars, you have very few options you can even select from anyway; they're all bundled in packages of stuff you may or may not care about. To be fair, this is an industry-wide trend; having fewer SKUs, in retail parlance, makes a ton of sense. But I think it's particularly bad in the US.
- wolpoli 5y ago
  People at a showroom might not be considered actual customers. We would need to get actual customer who have purchased the car to contact Mini, publically via Twitter, so they could no longer hide behind this statement.
lmilcin 5y ago
> they cannot see their own turn signal lights while driving. You are supposed to inspect your car at least from time to time. This includes walking over to see your turn signals work correctly.
- christophilus 5y ago
  Most people I know leave that up to their service people.
- Bud 5y ago
  We're supposed to brush twice a day, get regular exercise, eat well, not get drunk, not smoke, have an appropriate work/life balance, limit screen time, get enough sun exposure, not get too much sun exposure, vote, floss, do unto others as we would have them do unto us, and change the oil every five thousand miles, too. But how is all that working out?
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    I do check my car every couple of weeks. I have a routine that takes about 3 minutes total. About twice a month so about 24 times 3 minutes ~ 1 hour per year. Although I could argue it actually takes zero time because I usually do this while waiting for somebody else to get into the car. As a side note, if you are too busy to brush your teeth you should consider talking to a health professional about consequences of not brushing teeth. Or maybe your wife/girlfriend.
    - pc86 5y ago
      Okay. You're so in the minority that we can safely say "nobody does this" and still have it be an accurate statement at a statistical level.
      - sbarre 5y ago
        I also inspect my car pretty regularly in a quick "walk-around", and check things like tire pressure at least monthly, if we're out here collecting anecdotes. And I don't drive anything fancy..
sircastor 5y ago
I got really frustrated when I started to see 3 rapid flashes when a Toyota or Kia driver put on the brakes on the Highway. What had been a common signal for “you’re a little too close” was now shown every time the driver pressed the brake pedal. I guess I could’ve complained to one of the manufacturers, but what do they care? I’m not buying their cars.
- pc86 5y ago
  This isn't the manufacturer, they're aftermarket. It started (sensibly) with some emergency vehicles having it to make sure to get the attention of the driver[s] behind them. At some point people in high-traffic areas started thinking their 18 year old Corolla was worthy of the same treatment.
  - vesrah 5y ago
    Meanwhile, this is standard on some European market cars under heavy braking.
    - reaperducer 5y ago
      Meanwhile, this is standard on some European market cars under heavy braking. Instead of blinking the brake lights, some U.S. cars automatically turn on the hazard lights under heavy braking. It's standard on mine.
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        In Europe under emergency braking, the brake lights pulse (I think, i.e. from half-lit to full-lit) and the hazard lights flash too. The hazard lights stay lit if you stop, at least on some cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXR5JMsR5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXR5JMsR5o
      - u801e 5y ago
        Which models do that? And do they have amber color turn signal lamps?
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>> Mini has not heard any concerns from customers regarding the rear turn indicators >I wouldn't expect them to: they cannot see their own turn signal lights while driving. >If they happen to be behind another Mini, they already know about it The second sentence indicates that they would not inform Mini of any concerns because they are not aware there should be any concerns. The third sentence indicates that they would know if there were any possible concerns because they own a Mini.
- sellyme 5y ago
  > The third sentence indicates that they would know if there were any possible concerns because they own a Mini. It indicates that they're used to that because they own a Mini, and by the first time that it actually matters they're accustomed enough to not recognise the concern. The human brain is really good about not having to ever consciously think about something if it's had enough exposure in advance.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    if they cannot see their own signal lights - how did they get used to it?
    - sellyme 5y ago
      They can see the Union Jack design from close range whenever they're near their car, it doesn't need to be lit up.
dheera 5y ago
Can one just swap the two lights inside? Barring that, maybe some sort of diffuser sheet inside?
- amelius 5y ago
  Diffusers also make the light more dim.
  - danuker 5y ago
    If they're made by the manufacturer, chances are they'll use the proper brightness for the lights, or they wouldn't pass the safety approvals.
wiether 5y ago
> Mini has not heard any concerns from customers regarding the rear turn indicators That perfectly summarize the car industry. Manufacturers only care about the people in the car. It's not their problem if their car are death machines for everyone outside.
- kazen44 5y ago
  in my experience this is not true for most european manufacturers. (no clue about american ones). Volvo for instance, does a great job of thinking about safety in their cars, and so do the big three german manufacturers in my experience.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    The Mini is designed and manufactured in the UK, Germany and elsewhere in Europe. It's owned by BMW.
albert_e 5y ago
> Mini has not heard any concerns from customers regarding the rear turn indicators So ... zero survival rate?

ThePadawan 5y ago

I do hope that all it takes is a few customers in a showroom asking the salesman "does it come without those stupid fucking indicators?"

sircastor 5y ago
FWIW, the answer to that question is yes. We bought a Mini a few years back and the Union Jack indicators were an upgrade (not a cheap one as I recall)
- ThePadawan 5y ago
  Cool! I was trying to find out if they blinked in the weird arrow pattern by configuring one online, but it's impossible to tell (they're not shown blinking). Kinda surprising that they're not keen on selling potential customers on the upgrade.
- massysett 5y ago
  Oh, I had no idea it’s supposed to be a Union Jack, though it makes sense after you said it. All it looked like to me was the designer intentionally doing something unbelievably stupid for no reason at all. I guess having a really dumb reason is slightly better.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    It's very weird as a union jack - there is no central vertical bar.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      The vertical bar looks to be used as a brake light, at least on the European version. There are plenty of image results searching "Mini rear lights" or similar.
rconti 5y ago
The salesperson doesn't care, and the dealership sells whatever the manufacturer ships to them. The Mini dealer isn't about to start stocking Kias instead of Minis.
- ThePadawan 5y ago
  That's my question though. If anyone at Mini sees their 2019 model sold N in the first 6 months, and their 2021 model sold N/2, does anyone at corporate ask the dealerships to explain? I hope someone would care. What if 90% of potential buyers jumped off when they saw the mileage numbers. Or after the test drive. Or when they heard how long delivery would take. You know, any process optimization whatsoever.
  - rconti 5y ago
    I'm sure they do, but as a car enthusiast, we're forever frustrated, because the number of people who care is simply miniscule. I always bought used cars and it's frustrating that, of course, the manufacturers/dealers only care about people buying new. But now, having bought a new car, I realize they STILL don't care about my opinion, because people who care about the car-like-appliances they buy are in such a minority. Car dealerships have scads of people lining up to throw money at them for the privilege of having a new car. Look at how various non-enthusiast vehicles become trendy and command huge markups -- eg, the Kia Telluride became the "it" child taxi a few years ago (replacing the Honda CRV) and every self-respecting parent simply HAD to pay thousands over sticker to have the latest status symbol. Go try to buy a new car and the sales people simply don't seem to care about you wanting a difficult to find color combination from another dealer. They could source one if they wanted to, but they don't. They're catering to the masses who are simply to be allowed to buy a car sitting on the lot. They want to make as much money as possible from each sale; getting a marginal sale to someone who actually cares which option package or color they get simply isn't worth it. There are too few of "us" and too many of "them". In the US, it's incredibly rare to people actually order a car from the factory the way they want it, because nobody is willing to wait. The buyer accepts that they 'have to' buy whatever is on the lot that day. With most cars, you have very few options you can even select from anyway; they're all bundled in packages of stuff you may or may not care about. To be fair, this is an industry-wide trend; having fewer SKUs, in retail parlance, makes a ton of sense. But I think it's particularly bad in the US.
wolpoli 5y ago
People at a showroom might not be considered actual customers. We would need to get actual customer who have purchased the car to contact Mini, publically via Twitter, so they could no longer hide behind this statement.

lmilcin 5y ago

> they cannot see their own turn signal lights while driving. You are supposed to inspect your car at least from time to time. This includes walking over to see your turn signals work correctly.

christophilus 5y ago
Most people I know leave that up to their service people.
Bud 5y ago
We're supposed to brush twice a day, get regular exercise, eat well, not get drunk, not smoke, have an appropriate work/life balance, limit screen time, get enough sun exposure, not get too much sun exposure, vote, floss, do unto others as we would have them do unto us, and change the oil every five thousand miles, too. But how is all that working out?
- lmilcin 5y ago
  I do check my car every couple of weeks. I have a routine that takes about 3 minutes total. About twice a month so about 24 times 3 minutes ~ 1 hour per year. Although I could argue it actually takes zero time because I usually do this while waiting for somebody else to get into the car. As a side note, if you are too busy to brush your teeth you should consider talking to a health professional about consequences of not brushing teeth. Or maybe your wife/girlfriend.
  - pc86 5y ago
    Okay. You're so in the minority that we can safely say "nobody does this" and still have it be an accurate statement at a statistical level.
    - sbarre 5y ago
      I also inspect my car pretty regularly in a quick "walk-around", and check things like tire pressure at least monthly, if we're out here collecting anecdotes. And I don't drive anything fancy..

sircastor 5y ago

I got really frustrated when I started to see 3 rapid flashes when a Toyota or Kia driver put on the brakes on the Highway. What had been a common signal for “you’re a little too close” was now shown every time the driver pressed the brake pedal. I guess I could’ve complained to one of the manufacturers, but what do they care? I’m not buying their cars.

pc86 5y ago
This isn't the manufacturer, they're aftermarket. It started (sensibly) with some emergency vehicles having it to make sure to get the attention of the driver[s] behind them. At some point people in high-traffic areas started thinking their 18 year old Corolla was worthy of the same treatment.
- vesrah 5y ago
  Meanwhile, this is standard on some European market cars under heavy braking.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    Meanwhile, this is standard on some European market cars under heavy braking. Instead of blinking the brake lights, some U.S. cars automatically turn on the hazard lights under heavy braking. It's standard on mine.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      In Europe under emergency braking, the brake lights pulse (I think, i.e. from half-lit to full-lit) and the hazard lights flash too. The hazard lights stay lit if you stop, at least on some cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXR5JMsR5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTXR5JMsR5o
    - u801e 5y ago
      Which models do that? And do they have amber color turn signal lamps?

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>> Mini has not heard any concerns from customers regarding the rear turn indicators >I wouldn't expect them to: they cannot see their own turn signal lights while driving. >If they happen to be behind another Mini, they already know about it The second sentence indicates that they would not inform Mini of any concerns because they are not aware there should be any concerns. The third sentence indicates that they would know if there were any possible concerns because they own a Mini.

sellyme 5y ago
> The third sentence indicates that they would know if there were any possible concerns because they own a Mini. It indicates that they're used to that because they own a Mini, and by the first time that it actually matters they're accustomed enough to not recognise the concern. The human brain is really good about not having to ever consciously think about something if it's had enough exposure in advance.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  if they cannot see their own signal lights - how did they get used to it?
  - sellyme 5y ago
    They can see the Union Jack design from close range whenever they're near their car, it doesn't need to be lit up.

dheera 5y ago

Can one just swap the two lights inside? Barring that, maybe some sort of diffuser sheet inside?

amelius 5y ago
Diffusers also make the light more dim.
- danuker 5y ago
  If they're made by the manufacturer, chances are they'll use the proper brightness for the lights, or they wouldn't pass the safety approvals.

wiether 5y ago

> Mini has not heard any concerns from customers regarding the rear turn indicators That perfectly summarize the car industry. Manufacturers only care about the people in the car. It's not their problem if their car are death machines for everyone outside.

kazen44 5y ago
in my experience this is not true for most european manufacturers. (no clue about american ones). Volvo for instance, does a great job of thinking about safety in their cars, and so do the big three german manufacturers in my experience.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  The Mini is designed and manufactured in the UK, Germany and elsewhere in Europe. It's owned by BMW.

albert_e 5y ago

> Mini has not heard any concerns from customers regarding the rear turn indicators So ... zero survival rate?