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As a counterpoint to everything here, the Apple Watch just saved a friends life by telling them they were in AFib. Yes, it could be bad. Or it could be medical
by borski 5y ago
As a counterpoint to everything here, the Apple Watch just saved a friends life by telling them they were in AFib.
Yes, it could be bad. Or it could be medically beneficial to people who are anxious and depressed and simply don’t have anyone to help them recognize it because they’re alone. Particularly during the pandemic, that would have been useful.
- worrycue 5y agoFrankly, it would probably be fine if it could be turned off and if turned on, doesn’t report its findings back to Apple (or anyone, but you, for the matter).
- user-the-name 5y agoNo Apple health features report anything back to Apple or anyone else. Why would you expect this to be different?
- multiplegeorges 5y agoOh, I don't know... the behaviour of the entire rest of the tech industry.
- user-the-name 5y agoBut this is not being done by the rest of the tech industry, it is being done by Apple, specifically, who have a record of behaviour with medical data that, as far as I am aware, is spotless.
- hungryforcodes 5y agoEven if that's true -- and you've provided no proof -- the data would most likely get stored on iCloud, and just like iPhotos, Apple will decide one day to just start trolling through it for fun and profit. CSAM is coming back in other ways. Apple will try again.
- user-the-name 5y agoApple health data stored on iCloud is encrypted so that Apple can not access it.
- hungryforcodes 5y agoAs has been discussed often the keys to decrypt iCloud data are also stored on iCloud, so it's trivial to unencrypt the data. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/01/apple-reportedly-nixed-plan-for-end-to-end-encryption-in-iphone-backups/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/01/apple-reportedly... https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/21/21075033/apple-icloud-end-to-end-encryption-scrapped-fbi-reuters-report https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/21/21075033/apple-icloud-end...
- user-the-name 5y agoAnd why, exactly, did they try to make it impossible for themselves to do this, if that is something they actually want to do?
- hungryforcodes 5y agoIt's not impossible. They do this all the time for law enforcement. Did even read the links?
- user-the-name 5y agoI read the article, which said Apple wanted to make this impossible for themselves, but then police complained so they didn't. If they wanted to do it in the first place, why did they go to the effort of trying to make it impossible and had to be stopped by police?
- hungryforcodes 5y agoI'm assuming the FBI and various other law enforcement agencies would have kept pushing for access anyways, most likely by escalating to legal or legislative means ("let's ban encryption" type thing). Despite what one may think of the police, they do have a legal basis for attempting to collect possible evidence in the natural course of their duties when equipped with an appropriate warrant. In such cases Apple might have been exposed to any number of different legal problems, including obstruction of justice accusations. So it was probably just easier for Apple to comply. But who knows what the thinking was.
- mark_l_watson 5y agoGreat anecdote about your friend. As long as no health data leaves my Apple Watch + iPhone, I am OK with local deep learning (or other models) running on my devices. I do wish there were International standards and local laws supporting: all data staying on users' devices unless explicitly shared with health care providers, and also agreed upon standards for anonymizing explicitly shared data for the public good (research, AI training data, etc.)
- amelius 5y agoThe problem here is the tight integration by Apple: the app and the networking services are implemented by the same company. I'd be ok with an app by a third party which does not automatically gets network access on my phone explicitly or implicitly, so I know my data doesn't leave my phone.
- kergonath 5y agoHas there been any indication that health data and the associated sensitive information are leaving the device without the user's consent? They would run afoul of quite a lot of laws and regulations in all western jurisdictions the moment they do that. AFAIK, except when you enrol in a study, none of that depends on network access.
- amelius 5y agoWhen there is an indication, then it's already too late. The trust you have in the system is not the trust I have.
- kergonath 5y agoWell yeah, but without observable facts, this is just wild guesses or paranoia. Considering the regular news about weaknesses in anything from Safari to iMessages, I have a really hard time taking these claims seriously. The storage and processing of health data is documented, and they do not leave the device or the Secure Enclave (unless you accept it, e.g. during a study).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- agumonkey 5y agoi wonder if non smartwatch have fine AFib detection like apple's device.