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I highly doubt that all parts of a Ferrari are produced in Italy. As far as I can tell they e.g. use plenty of electronics components sourced from Bosch.

znpy 5y ago
That's probably true, but that doesn't help the narrative and so people lobbying for an exception to the rule will ignore that point. Frankly, even though I'm Italian, I think that there should be no exception. If that production chain didn't bother with an electric conversion until now it's really their fault.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> As far as I can tell they e.g. use plenty of electronics components sourced from Bosch. Well, it's not literal, there are things they have to build using components made by others. But AFAIK electronic components in Ferrari are made by Magneti Marelli (I briefly worked for them, not in car manufacturing though).
- MichaelZuo 5y ago
  It also seems unlikely that all the wires and tubing are made in Italy.
- prova_modena 5y ago
  Marelli makes some electronics for Ferrari, but Bosch makes a lot as well. For example, Ferrari has used Bosch fuel injection systems and ECUs since the 80s.
SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
Automotive EE here, more than 1/2 the electronics in a Ferrari are available in the Fiat base line. The 500 specially typically shares the same body, radio frequency hub, and engine controller is the same in the McClaren 570 (unrelated but personally interesting), and almost certainly somewhere in the Ferrari line, it’s a common part, software is different obviously. It goes on from there, window motors, steering angle sensor, airbag hardware, the electronic pedal is from the bla bla bla. Last I saw one of the Ferrari “Touring” models was hotter, nicer Maserati Levante for like $300,000 more. Basically the only things unique to supercars, past the body and chassis are the bad parts. The parts the drain the battery constantly and require you to store it with a trickle charger attached. Or have a rep fly out to unlock the battery panel because it refuses to open when completely dead (personal experience with a LaFerrari). Supercars, are not cars. If you have any experience with them you know what this means. The engineering that goes into a RAV4 is a lot more in hours and dollars. So this topic is a bit silly to me, they’re extremely niche machines. I wouldn’t classify them as transportation even if they fit all the checkboxes.
- urthor 5y ago
  What's the opposite of this experience I guess. The Toyota as you've cited, or a similar Hyundai? Where the sheer volume and implicit agreement with the customer is predicated on the fact every single part is engineered for reliability, and the automobile wins the "total cost of ownership over 10 years" prize in Choice magazine for its segment?
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    Yea. I mean, GM has a group of maybe 20 people that do nothing but fog lights on trucks. If you took 20 engineers away from McClaren, I think the company would shut down. I’m pessimistic about the industry from the moment that OTA updates were possible. Everything has gotten worse with that. “We’ll fix it before Dealers get them!” (No, you won’t). But for the most part, car engineering is a really unique thing. Tons of time, tons of money, because there are tons of them. How many people have private jets? How many people have boats? Trains? Etc. but everyone has a car, and they basically all have to work all the time in any condition with a flat out assumption you aren’t going to take care of it. I think it’s really funny that if I walk into a building with supercars, and I mean Bugatti, Koenigsegg, the rare Porches, the million dollar plus crew, that they ALL have to sit with trickle chargers on them. Because otherwise they would ALL run their batteries dead in two weeks or less. The LaFerarri issue I mentioned was the batteries were all dead, the ebrake was on. So it couldn’t be loaded on a trailer. The access to the ebrake release is behind a door you can’t get to without power. No one designed this as a car for humans. To this day the only person I’ve seen actually drive one like a car was a guy in Taiwan that was definitely some gang or cartel executive. Nice guy though. He didn’t care it isn’t a real car. I think it’s funny because people who dream of these things, have no idea what a pain in the ass they are to even get in and out of. Porsche makes some higher end ones that still feel like cars, and the Ferrari touring aren’t bad, big though. IDK. I’m probably just jaded on vehicles.
    - sitkack 5y ago
      Is one of the points you are trying to make is that we don't have a proper level of engineering until something is mass produced to the same quality level? Maybe mass produced is the wrong word, but something that satisfies more of the common design constraints or functional requirements. I do think that there is a sloppyness that develops in thinking when using a medium that allows for free infinite continuous modification. Having a design be final has a certain foundational quality to it.

znpy 5y ago

That's probably true, but that doesn't help the narrative and so people lobbying for an exception to the rule will ignore that point. Frankly, even though I'm Italian, I think that there should be no exception. If that production chain didn't bother with an electric conversion until now it's really their fault.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

peoplefromibiza 5y ago

> As far as I can tell they e.g. use plenty of electronics components sourced from Bosch. Well, it's not literal, there are things they have to build using components made by others. But AFAIK electronic components in Ferrari are made by Magneti Marelli (I briefly worked for them, not in car manufacturing though).

MichaelZuo 5y ago
It also seems unlikely that all the wires and tubing are made in Italy.
prova_modena 5y ago
Marelli makes some electronics for Ferrari, but Bosch makes a lot as well. For example, Ferrari has used Bosch fuel injection systems and ECUs since the 80s.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago

Automotive EE here, more than 1/2 the electronics in a Ferrari are available in the Fiat base line. The 500 specially typically shares the same body, radio frequency hub, and engine controller is the same in the McClaren 570 (unrelated but personally interesting), and almost certainly somewhere in the Ferrari line, it’s a common part, software is different obviously. It goes on from there, window motors, steering angle sensor, airbag hardware, the electronic pedal is from the bla bla bla. Last I saw one of the Ferrari “Touring” models was hotter, nicer Maserati Levante for like $300,000 more. Basically the only things unique to supercars, past the body and chassis are the bad parts. The parts the drain the battery constantly and require you to store it with a trickle charger attached. Or have a rep fly out to unlock the battery panel because it refuses to open when completely dead (personal experience with a LaFerrari). Supercars, are not cars. If you have any experience with them you know what this means. The engineering that goes into a RAV4 is a lot more in hours and dollars. So this topic is a bit silly to me, they’re extremely niche machines. I wouldn’t classify them as transportation even if they fit all the checkboxes.

urthor 5y ago
What's the opposite of this experience I guess. The Toyota as you've cited, or a similar Hyundai? Where the sheer volume and implicit agreement with the customer is predicated on the fact every single part is engineered for reliability, and the automobile wins the "total cost of ownership over 10 years" prize in Choice magazine for its segment?
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  Yea. I mean, GM has a group of maybe 20 people that do nothing but fog lights on trucks. If you took 20 engineers away from McClaren, I think the company would shut down. I’m pessimistic about the industry from the moment that OTA updates were possible. Everything has gotten worse with that. “We’ll fix it before Dealers get them!” (No, you won’t). But for the most part, car engineering is a really unique thing. Tons of time, tons of money, because there are tons of them. How many people have private jets? How many people have boats? Trains? Etc. but everyone has a car, and they basically all have to work all the time in any condition with a flat out assumption you aren’t going to take care of it. I think it’s really funny that if I walk into a building with supercars, and I mean Bugatti, Koenigsegg, the rare Porches, the million dollar plus crew, that they ALL have to sit with trickle chargers on them. Because otherwise they would ALL run their batteries dead in two weeks or less. The LaFerarri issue I mentioned was the batteries were all dead, the ebrake was on. So it couldn’t be loaded on a trailer. The access to the ebrake release is behind a door you can’t get to without power. No one designed this as a car for humans. To this day the only person I’ve seen actually drive one like a car was a guy in Taiwan that was definitely some gang or cartel executive. Nice guy though. He didn’t care it isn’t a real car. I think it’s funny because people who dream of these things, have no idea what a pain in the ass they are to even get in and out of. Porsche makes some higher end ones that still feel like cars, and the Ferrari touring aren’t bad, big though. IDK. I’m probably just jaded on vehicles.
  - sitkack 5y ago
    Is one of the points you are trying to make is that we don't have a proper level of engineering until something is mass produced to the same quality level? Maybe mass produced is the wrong word, but something that satisfies more of the common design constraints or functional requirements. I do think that there is a sloppyness that develops in thinking when using a medium that allows for free infinite continuous modification. Having a design be final has a certain foundational quality to it.