7 ms·

Tesla Safety Score Beta

33 points by sbuttgereit 5y ago

nbrempel 5y ago
Insurance companies will love this!
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  If I’m a safe driver, I don’t want to pay more for poor drivers. If this helps insurers more accurately price auto insurance while providing direct financial incentives to poor drivers to improve, I fully support it. This is Econ 101.
  - mns 5y ago
    Just wait until something breaks or the system determines that you are a bad driver because instead of looking at the road you looked right of left (in the mirror), just like that Amazon story from a couple of days ago. I seems that we are heading into this weird world where, like in the movie "Brazil" some weird bug in one of our surveillance and human management systems will end up destroying lives, leaving people completely helpless and plagued for their entire existence.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      That’s a regulatory issue, not a technology or implementation issue. You prevent that outcome with laws, not code. Auto insurance is already heavily regulated in the US.
      - noptd 5y ago
        Por qué no los dos?
      - dzikimarian 5y ago
        How, system making bad decision, is regulatory issue? You probably won't be able to prove that decision was incorrect in the first place.
  - rasputnik6502 5y ago
    Everywhere im the world you get a discount with every year of accident-free driving. And your insurance fee goes up after you cause an accident. So what are you talking about?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
yumraj 5y ago
Yet another reason not to buy a Tesla, or any car which does this. Do we really want these kind of scores to determine our insurance rates, outcomes in the case of an accident and so on? Insurance is obvious, but I won't be surprised if in the case of an accident arguments are made using such a score to determine who was at fault. OTOH, I wonder if this is a precursor to Tesla launching its own car insurance program.
- badrchoubai 5y ago
  It looks like they're already rolling their own insurance program out: https://www.tesla.com/insurance https://www.tesla.com/insurance | https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance, currently limited to California.
  - yumraj 5y ago
    1) Given Tesla's track record in blaming FSD related accidents on drivers, does one really want them to be the insurance company where their and a driver's incentives are obviously mismatched. 2) One of the issues, once the technical issues related to FSD are resolved, is insurance. So, will/does Tesla's insurance have a clause that says that in cases where FSD is at fault, Tesla is the liable party?
- owly 5y ago
  Tesla is not alone on this. Other manufacturers are starting to enable similar levels of tracking, often automatically opted in and you have to go through several steps to opt out. In a few years, the only option with be not to drive or buy a classic car.
  - yumraj 5y ago
    Do you have more information on which all manufacturers are doing this? It'd be very useful information in making a purchase decision.
- laegooose 5y ago
  Can you please explain in more details why do you think this is bad? Right now, both careful drivers and aggressive drivers pay the same amount for insurance, which means that careful subsidize aggressive ones. Tesla scoring separates those groups and promotes more safer on the roads.
ALittleLight 5y ago
Train self driving models from safer drivers. Encourage drivers to be safer. Seems smart to me. I'd like to see a vehicle crashes per 100k miles before and after the safety score, and by safety score quartiles.
yarcob 5y ago
I love this. There are so many people who truly believe ridiculous bullshit with regard to driving. People have been telling me that SUVs are safer cars (questionable) or that higher powered cars are safer (highly questionable) or that driving slower than the speed limit increases the risk of accidents (no comment). If this score provides real time feedback to people based on real world data, maybe it can help change somebodys mind. Maybe it can nudge people to become slightly safer drivers.
- avereveard 5y ago
  > higher powered cars are safer (highly questionable) there's a good correlation (not 1:1 but still, quite good) between car performances and their ability to corner and their braking distance. a fast car driven by an idiot is going to make him more dangerous, but in the hand of an average driver will serve him well in all the emergency maneuver he'll find himself doing.
  - AuryGlenz 5y ago
    The second day with my Camaro I had to full on hard brake to avoid a deer. My previous car would have smashed through it.
- noptd 5y ago
  >that driving slower than the speed limit increases the risk of accidents Nit: this is accurate when all others are driving the speed limit (or greater), given the likelihood of accidents increases as speed differential increases.
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  higher powered cards tend to be high-end and thus have better safety systems built in. that‘s why you often hear of people going 250km/h in some top of the line mercedes, crashing and getting out eith barely a scratch. and how are SUVs not safer, given they have more mass and a larger crunch zone? also, since the driver is seated higher he can see more what is going on in front of him (a fee small cars ahead)
JaggedJax 5y ago
One of the safety factors used here is "Forced Autopilot Disengagement" which I've experienced a bug with that can trigger if you take control of the car using the steering wheel without disengaging via the control stalk. I have a habit of taking over control of the car on a freeway offramp by just turning the wheel, and around 1-2% of the time the car freaks out and gives the disengagement alert thinking that I'm not controlling the car. I suspect that bug will make my safety score worse.
mycentstoo 5y ago
Not a fan but seems inevitable. My personal feeling is that this won’t lead to decreases in rates but just increases in rates on those who are deemed unsafe. I’d want to disable this if possible.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  GM did something just like this years ago and in fact looking around they expanded it into an entire insurance program with specific discounts for their vehicles: https://www.onstarinsurance.com/ https://www.onstarinsurance.com/ OnStar equipped vehicles generate a safety score, but your score will only be shared with the insurance company if it was high enough to earn a deduction. And since it's an opt-in program, the lack of a score provided doesn't give them a datapoint either.
bigdang 5y ago
Surprised no one has made the connection that this score will be used to determine the extent of FSD is available to you, which seems a great solution to the scary mass-distribution of the vehicle-as-a-weapon approach.
throwawaysea 5y ago
Between the yoke steering wheel, the farcical promise that is FSD, the lack of physical knobs, the lack of CarPlay/Android Auto, and this new mess of privacy/surveillance issues, I will pass on Tesla. I was ready to make my next car a Tesla despite the other flaws but I think I’m over the tipping point and don’t want to reward those normalizing these things.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Throwaway marketing account?
DevKoala 5y ago
This is a great move as these sort of metrics will unconsciously push individuals to become better drivers in the same fashion weight balances help you lose weight.

33 points by sbuttgereit 5y ago

nbrempel 5y ago

Insurance companies will love this!

toomuchtodo 5y ago
If I’m a safe driver, I don’t want to pay more for poor drivers. If this helps insurers more accurately price auto insurance while providing direct financial incentives to poor drivers to improve, I fully support it. This is Econ 101.
- mns 5y ago
  Just wait until something breaks or the system determines that you are a bad driver because instead of looking at the road you looked right of left (in the mirror), just like that Amazon story from a couple of days ago. I seems that we are heading into this weird world where, like in the movie "Brazil" some weird bug in one of our surveillance and human management systems will end up destroying lives, leaving people completely helpless and plagued for their entire existence.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    That’s a regulatory issue, not a technology or implementation issue. You prevent that outcome with laws, not code. Auto insurance is already heavily regulated in the US.
    - noptd 5y ago
      Por qué no los dos?
    - dzikimarian 5y ago
      How, system making bad decision, is regulatory issue? You probably won't be able to prove that decision was incorrect in the first place.
- rasputnik6502 5y ago
  Everywhere im the world you get a discount with every year of accident-free driving. And your insurance fee goes up after you cause an accident. So what are you talking about?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

yumraj 5y ago

Yet another reason not to buy a Tesla, or any car which does this. Do we really want these kind of scores to determine our insurance rates, outcomes in the case of an accident and so on? Insurance is obvious, but I won't be surprised if in the case of an accident arguments are made using such a score to determine who was at fault. OTOH, I wonder if this is a precursor to Tesla launching its own car insurance program.

badrchoubai 5y ago
It looks like they're already rolling their own insurance program out: https://www.tesla.com/insurance https://www.tesla.com/insurance | https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance, currently limited to California.
- yumraj 5y ago
  1) Given Tesla's track record in blaming FSD related accidents on drivers, does one really want them to be the insurance company where their and a driver's incentives are obviously mismatched. 2) One of the issues, once the technical issues related to FSD are resolved, is insurance. So, will/does Tesla's insurance have a clause that says that in cases where FSD is at fault, Tesla is the liable party?
owly 5y ago
Tesla is not alone on this. Other manufacturers are starting to enable similar levels of tracking, often automatically opted in and you have to go through several steps to opt out. In a few years, the only option with be not to drive or buy a classic car.
- yumraj 5y ago
  Do you have more information on which all manufacturers are doing this? It'd be very useful information in making a purchase decision.
laegooose 5y ago
Can you please explain in more details why do you think this is bad? Right now, both careful drivers and aggressive drivers pay the same amount for insurance, which means that careful subsidize aggressive ones. Tesla scoring separates those groups and promotes more safer on the roads.

ALittleLight 5y ago

Train self driving models from safer drivers. Encourage drivers to be safer. Seems smart to me. I'd like to see a vehicle crashes per 100k miles before and after the safety score, and by safety score quartiles.

yarcob 5y ago

I love this. There are so many people who truly believe ridiculous bullshit with regard to driving. People have been telling me that SUVs are safer cars (questionable) or that higher powered cars are safer (highly questionable) or that driving slower than the speed limit increases the risk of accidents (no comment). If this score provides real time feedback to people based on real world data, maybe it can help change somebodys mind. Maybe it can nudge people to become slightly safer drivers.

avereveard 5y ago
> higher powered cars are safer (highly questionable) there's a good correlation (not 1:1 but still, quite good) between car performances and their ability to corner and their braking distance. a fast car driven by an idiot is going to make him more dangerous, but in the hand of an average driver will serve him well in all the emergency maneuver he'll find himself doing.
- AuryGlenz 5y ago
  The second day with my Camaro I had to full on hard brake to avoid a deer. My previous car would have smashed through it.
noptd 5y ago
>that driving slower than the speed limit increases the risk of accidents Nit: this is accurate when all others are driving the speed limit (or greater), given the likelihood of accidents increases as speed differential increases.
axiosgunnar 5y ago
higher powered cards tend to be high-end and thus have better safety systems built in. that‘s why you often hear of people going 250km/h in some top of the line mercedes, crashing and getting out eith barely a scratch. and how are SUVs not safer, given they have more mass and a larger crunch zone? also, since the driver is seated higher he can see more what is going on in front of him (a fee small cars ahead)

JaggedJax 5y ago

One of the safety factors used here is "Forced Autopilot Disengagement" which I've experienced a bug with that can trigger if you take control of the car using the steering wheel without disengaging via the control stalk. I have a habit of taking over control of the car on a freeway offramp by just turning the wheel, and around 1-2% of the time the car freaks out and gives the disengagement alert thinking that I'm not controlling the car. I suspect that bug will make my safety score worse.

mycentstoo 5y ago

Not a fan but seems inevitable. My personal feeling is that this won’t lead to decreases in rates but just increases in rates on those who are deemed unsafe. I’d want to disable this if possible.

BoorishBears 5y ago
GM did something just like this years ago and in fact looking around they expanded it into an entire insurance program with specific discounts for their vehicles: https://www.onstarinsurance.com/ https://www.onstarinsurance.com/ OnStar equipped vehicles generate a safety score, but your score will only be shared with the insurance company if it was high enough to earn a deduction. And since it's an opt-in program, the lack of a score provided doesn't give them a datapoint either.

bigdang 5y ago

Surprised no one has made the connection that this score will be used to determine the extent of FSD is available to you, which seems a great solution to the scary mass-distribution of the vehicle-as-a-weapon approach.

throwawaysea 5y ago

Between the yoke steering wheel, the farcical promise that is FSD, the lack of physical knobs, the lack of CarPlay/Android Auto, and this new mess of privacy/surveillance issues, I will pass on Tesla. I was ready to make my next car a Tesla despite the other flaws but I think I’m over the tipping point and don’t want to reward those normalizing these things.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
Throwaway marketing account?

DevKoala 5y ago

This is a great move as these sort of metrics will unconsciously push individuals to become better drivers in the same fashion weight balances help you lose weight.