17 ms·

Pope Francis and Other Christian Leaders Are Calling for Bold Climate Action

123 points by perfunctory 5y ago

lbriner 5y ago
I'm not sure how valuable this is really. Most people, I assume, would wholeheartedly agree but since the CC culprits are not 'Christians who cause climate change', then the pope or Archbishop saying what loads of other people are saying is neither surprising nor worth it. Personally, I would like to see practical ways of acually reducing fossil fuel demands but this is much harder for the church, except in their own properties, and easier for governments.
- magicroot75 5y ago
  Do you believe anything the CC says is surprising and worth it?
- ethbr0 5y ago
  There's still a substantial portion of customers who are Christians though. And various religious movements have had their moments of realizing economic change by educating and motivating their adherents to demand it. (E.g. racial equality boycotts)
- fsiefken 5y ago
  there are 1.33 billion catholics in the world
  - legutierr 5y ago
    Yes, and 25% of the US population is Catholic, half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). If more people come to believe that they have a moral obligation to do what they can to prevent climate change—including by supporting government interventions and investments, and gracefully accepting higher energy costs and energy taxes—then maybe we can hope for a break in the political logjam that is preventing energy reforms from being implemented in the United States. Papal infallibility today doesn't seem to be what it was in the past in the minds of many American Catholics, however. There has been a surprising amount of direct criticism of the pope among conservative American Catholics in recent years, many of whom seem to place their political loyalties ahead of their loyalty to the church (which I have found surprising).
    - mercy_dude 5y ago
      > half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). That’s a very cynical statement. Goes to show why both sides will never meet in the middle of the road with thinking that way. Voting republicans doesn’t mean I am against climate change reforms. The issue at hand is how practically we deal with it and reduce demands on fossil fuel and transition to clean energy. Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway. Look at California and its recent outages to any demand spike of utilities as an example.
      - dangsface 5y ago
        From what I understand, cynical doesn't mean a lack of truth. So when you say it is cynical, what you are saying is that cynicism shouldn't be allowed. I loathe this world of fake humans constantly pretending to be delusionally optimistic. I don't have real conversations anymore. Saying "that's a very cynical statement" shows that we have to constantly lie to one another. I hope you realize this
      - input_sh 5y ago
        > Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway. Your point stands, Democrat solutions addressing climate change are definitely pretty bad. That being said, at least they have some climate change policies they're pushing for right now instead of kicking the can down the road. Can you honestly say the same about Republicans?
        ArchStanton 5y ago
        Considering that the US share of greenhouse gases is fairly small (15% of world total), has decreased quite a lot over time, and becomes harder on the margin, I'd say it's mostly just slinging words for political power at this point. My own take is that you can avoid ecological devastation only through population reduction and in the short term by not up-leveling the Third World via mass immigration and industrialization.
- jl6 5y ago
  One step at a time. Not even the Pope, alone, is going to solve this, but every bit of support adds to the critical mass of people calling for change.
  - fascistusa 5y ago
    What does talking do? How is talking an actionable thing? It seems the majority of people are talking about making change. One more person doesn't make a difference if no one is doing anything.
- angelzen 5y ago
  Nit. Ambiguity. CC = Climate Change CC = Catholic Church
- williamtrask 5y ago
  This is pretty cynical. The Christian church has guided the way in which many people live for thousands of years, and a cross-denominational, united stance against climate change from its leadership is likely to have impact. Certainly a positive development.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    It is rather cynical but also rather accurate to note that people like being warm in winter, and the Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission. They already have a core mission, it involves human souls. The environmentalists have faced stiff resistance in my life time not because anyone likes coal or oil, but because there were no alternatives. It isn't like the Catholics have ever had a point of doctrine like "and yea, your electricity shall only be sourced from fuels that are greater than 60% carbon by mass, for the atomic number 6 is especially holy!". They already have a longer term time horizon than most nations.
    - jimktrains2 5y ago
      > Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission Being a good steward of nature is and has been a very important part of Catholic doctrine for a very long time.
      - fascistusa 5y ago
        Was this before or after helping the Nazi party?
      - conductr 5y ago
        Yet here we are, how does this improve the situation? I hold a cynical view as to the influence religion has on this particular subject as well. I view religion as a large corporation, they have finally realized the long term impact of CC will be bad for business. Just like corporate BODs they are increasingly asking management to put forth a climate strategy. And investment firms that are moving their portfolio away from fossil fuel, it’s just modern corporate policy to have a stance that protects shareholder value in the long term. But really it’s just something to point to when asked “what are you doing about the climate?” A bit of a rant there, but to reiterate, I don’t see how this influences action in a meaningful way. I’m glad they are doing it, it’s better than not.
vadfa 5y ago
How many CEOs are Catholic? :')
- joshuaissac 5y ago
  In the US, around 42%, according to a 2016 study. https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/217155978.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/217155978.pdf
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - kgwgk 5y ago
    They report 29.5% Catholic CEOs in their sample. (42% is the share of Catholics in the Catholics plus Protestants subpopulation, the latter are 40.6% of their sample).
- Aachen 5y ago
  Christian parties do surprisingly well in mostly atheistic Germany, for example.
dr_dshiv 5y ago
Cool, maybe these Christian leaders will finally be accepting of voluntary birth control as a wise form of choosing life — e.g., by acting as a steward of nature and reducing poverty? (Ok, well, even if not, the gesture in support of environmental justice is appreciated)
- magicroot75 5y ago
  Thus is the curse of being a religion. You do one thing that general society helps. And then they just criticize another piece of your belief system. There's no system that will perfectly allow people to both find value and meaning in their world AND also promote totally free action of others. Thus we live in a contemporary world of non-religious people seeking out value (look at the current obsession in Silicon Valley with Stoicism, mindfulness, pyschadelics, etc). But Silicon Valley also tells their people that they can't use those methods to find an actual belief system of values. It's like, definitely always look for meaning and value in the universe, we like that. But, don't find it and a be bold about it. Catholics are against birth control because we're for a world in which human life is nourished, valued, and lifted up within the family. Not that it's seen as a problem to be dealt with. A knock on impact of that mentality is the sex becomes seen as a sacred act of deep value to humanity, an act with profound power and responsibility. Almost no Catholics suggest that we legally outlaw birth control. We recognize that fundamentally free agency should be left to moral agents (unless it cause a direct moral hazard to others like abortion, theft, dishonesty, etc). But why would we change our view on reproduction and the family? Moreso, birth control doesn't even do that great of a job at slower birth rates in developing nations.
  - jl6 5y ago
    > Thus is the curse of being a religion. You do one thing that general society helps. And then they just criticize another piece of your belief system. You could treat it as a learning opportunity. Carry on doing the good stuff and stop doing the bad stuff?
    - Veen 5y ago
      Except, of course, they don't think the "bad stuff" is bad. They think the good stuff (contraception) is bad. The Pope can support climate change action because it doesn't really touch on Catholic beliefs, whereas contraception does.
jokoon 5y ago
That's big news. I'm atheist, but worldwide, the word of the pope always holds a lot of power. Climate change is mostly a large political issue, much more than racism or inequality, it's a much more large scale issue, which requires that people with a lot of influence need to speak. Not to mention that the Vatican, even with all the evils of religion, is still a place with a lot of thinkers.
analog31 5y ago
Great. Now tell the American bishops to call off the culture war. Catholics have instructions on how to resolve the dilemma where one candidate supports doctrine A, and the other candidate supports doctrine B. In plain terms, it's basically "choose your battles." This came to light when the dilemma of the day was abortion versus capital punishment and the poor. Owing largely to the culture war, American Catholics have provided decisive support to the party that calls global warming a hoax. This isn't a political statement on my part, but just a statistical one. My view is that the Church has quietly held a token position on global warming while concentrating its social influence on other matters. I don't have a definitive answer on this, and could of course be wrong, but choosing the wrong battle is a moral failure.
- ArchStanton 5y ago
  >Owing largely to the culture war, American Catholics have provided decisive support to the party that calls global warming a hoax. This isn't a political statement on my part, but just a statistical one. Than why are 44% of Catholics Democrat and only 37% Republican? https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/party-affiliation/ https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/party-aff... Methinks your own POV poisons your opinions.
  - analog31 5y ago
    True, but if they all went Democratic, it would tip the scales considerably. The margins in many regions are a tiny number of percentage points, and the Senate is 50-50 right now. A small percentage, not even a nationwide majority, have given us a heavily biased supreme court. That's what I mean by decisive support. The Bishops could tip the scales if they were told to. This is about how the Pope could influence the situation. I don't know how any individual Catholic votes, and both party allegiances and voting patterns are merely crude attempts at getting a statistical foothold on the question.
    - ArchStanton 5y ago
      >True, but if they all went Democratic, it would tip the scales considerably. It would be a tricky thing. You'd have to convince Catholics that Oregon-style abortion law (legal right up until birth) was reasonable and that the normalization of mental illness was desirable (the current rage for transsexuals). OTOH, as a trans-national organization, I could see shifting the Catholic hierarchy into thinking that unlimited mass immigration to Western countries was desirable. More membership, more souls to save and all that.
ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago
Maybe equating Satan with global warming is the way here.
cletus 5y ago
Hot take: it doesn't matter who comes out in favour of stronger action on climate change. The only way we'll get significant change is when it becomes economic to do so. The world population or even a significant percentage of it won't change their behaviour altruistically even for a minor inconvenience and risk. New coal plants aren't built (mostly) and old ones are closing not because of altruism or a genuine concern for climate change. It's because other options are more economic, specifically LNG and solar. Now LNG isn't much better but it is better. Solar is definitely better. But what drove solar adoption over the last decade is the plunging price of panels, not altruism.
- 542458 5y ago
  I don’t think this is strictly true. We banned dumping of waste in the ocean even though it remains the “cheapest” way of disposing of toxic waste. Governments can make it economic for companies and individuals to behave in more environmentally friendly ways, and will do so when enough political pressure arises (note that since we’re correcting for externalities, this is more economically efficient than letting pollution be “free”). To this end, coming out in favour of climate change action is useful.
  - cletus 5y ago
    If you think about this, this too is just an economic motive. The cost of non-compliance (fines, prosecution, etc) multiplied by the risk of that happening is less than the cost of compliance, so it happens. People and companies break laws all the time when it's cheaper to do so. I can't help but think of Fight Club [1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE
- ArchStanton 5y ago
  >New coal plants aren't built The US isn't the world. https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants
- tomComb 5y ago
  But we can take some action to make it economic to do so. For consumers, putting a price on carbon can make it simple and economic for them to chose greener options And for corporations, the EU has been working on various schemes to price carbon for EU companies and to put a corresponding penalty on companies from other countries that don't (to avoid disadvantaging their companies).
fascistusa 5y ago
There is a meme on reddit currently about how the after-church religious crowd are the worst human beings to serve as a server. So I find it quite hilarious that some people's argument is "25% catholic" with nothing else as though that is the end of the conversation. I find this hilarious so I am sure it isn't allowed here as it I don't speak like a robot and I am not on the spectrum.
spodek 5y ago
Four words from the Pope could have the greatest effect per effort of any act on our environmental problems: "You can use contraception." It won't solve all problems, but it will help a lot. There is plenty of scripture he could call on to justify it. One, for example, is that the prophecy of having as many descendants as grains of sand on the beach couldn't have meant all at once, because we wouldn't all fit. Decreasing the chance of that many descendants undermines the prophecy. Italy's low birth rate means Catholics are using birth control anyway, so people have figured it out.
- WC3w6pXxgGd 5y ago
  Do you apply this same logic to Islam or just to Catholicism?
- thinkingemote 5y ago
  A contrarian point of view would be that it's modern capitalism, consumerism and individualism (that supports contraception, abortion, divorce, etc) that has caused the climate emergency. Thus opposing the things that consumerism supports also helps fight for the environment. For most people doing this is harder than not and people will protect their investment.
tromp 5y ago
> Getting Biden's climate proposal done, though, will require the support of all 50 Democratic senators, including fellow Catholic Manchin. This appears to assume that all Republican senators will vote against the climate proposal, which I find overly pessimistic.
- tmountain 5y ago
  One of the GOP key characteristics is operating in lock step. They use climate change as a wedge issue. I would be shocked if any one of them voted off the party line on this issue.
fidesomnes 5y ago
It's amazing what a hard on NPR has for higher taxes and destroying economic activity. Imagine if they actually directed this propaganda to our enemies instead of us.
antattack 5y ago
Joe Manchin argues: "If they're eliminating fossils, and I'm finding out there's a lot of language in places they're eliminating fossils, which is very, very disturbing," he said, "because if you're sticking your head in the sand, and saying that fossil has to be eliminated in America, and they want to get rid of it, and thinking that's going to clean up the global climate, it won't clean it up all." How is that coherent at all?
bob229 5y ago
Funny how the anti Catholicism comments aren’t being banned for “inciting a religious flame war” like the comments on the nonsense Koran API were. Yet another example of Islamophilia. That said who takes the word of the Catholic Church seriously? One of the most corrupt and criminal organisations ever to exist. Just read Hitlers Pope by John Cornwell

123 points by perfunctory 5y ago

I'm not sure how valuable this is really. Most people, I assume, would wholeheartedly agree but since the CC culprits are not 'Christians who cause climate change', then the pope or Archbishop saying what loads of other people are saying is neither surprising nor worth it. Personally, I would like to see practical ways of acually reducing fossil fuel demands but this is much harder for the church, except in their own properties, and easier for governments.

magicroot75 5y ago
Do you believe anything the CC says is surprising and worth it?
ethbr0 5y ago
There's still a substantial portion of customers who are Christians though. And various religious movements have had their moments of realizing economic change by educating and motivating their adherents to demand it. (E.g. racial equality boycotts)
fsiefken 5y ago
there are 1.33 billion catholics in the world
- legutierr 5y ago
  Yes, and 25% of the US population is Catholic, half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). If more people come to believe that they have a moral obligation to do what they can to prevent climate change—including by supporting government interventions and investments, and gracefully accepting higher energy costs and energy taxes—then maybe we can hope for a break in the political logjam that is preventing energy reforms from being implemented in the United States. Papal infallibility today doesn't seem to be what it was in the past in the minds of many American Catholics, however. There has been a surprising amount of direct criticism of the pope among conservative American Catholics in recent years, many of whom seem to place their political loyalties ahead of their loyalty to the church (which I have found surprising).
  - mercy_dude 5y ago
    > half of which group votes Republican (i.e., against reforms designed to prevent or slow climate change). That’s a very cynical statement. Goes to show why both sides will never meet in the middle of the road with thinking that way. Voting republicans doesn’t mean I am against climate change reforms. The issue at hand is how practically we deal with it and reduce demands on fossil fuel and transition to clean energy. Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway. Look at California and its recent outages to any demand spike of utilities as an example.
    - dangsface 5y ago
      From what I understand, cynical doesn't mean a lack of truth. So when you say it is cynical, what you are saying is that cynicism shouldn't be allowed. I loathe this world of fake humans constantly pretending to be delusionally optimistic. I don't have real conversations anymore. Saying "that's a very cynical statement" shows that we have to constantly lie to one another. I hope you realize this
    - input_sh 5y ago
      > Policies touted by a lot of left leaning politicians aren’t practical and many of them know it but they say it anyway. Your point stands, Democrat solutions addressing climate change are definitely pretty bad. That being said, at least they have some climate change policies they're pushing for right now instead of kicking the can down the road. Can you honestly say the same about Republicans?
      - ArchStanton 5y ago
        Considering that the US share of greenhouse gases is fairly small (15% of world total), has decreased quite a lot over time, and becomes harder on the margin, I'd say it's mostly just slinging words for political power at this point. My own take is that you can avoid ecological devastation only through population reduction and in the short term by not up-leveling the Third World via mass immigration and industrialization.
jl6 5y ago
One step at a time. Not even the Pope, alone, is going to solve this, but every bit of support adds to the critical mass of people calling for change.
- fascistusa 5y ago
  What does talking do? How is talking an actionable thing? It seems the majority of people are talking about making change. One more person doesn't make a difference if no one is doing anything.
angelzen 5y ago
Nit. Ambiguity. CC = Climate Change CC = Catholic Church
williamtrask 5y ago
This is pretty cynical. The Christian church has guided the way in which many people live for thousands of years, and a cross-denominational, united stance against climate change from its leadership is likely to have impact. Certainly a positive development.
- roenxi 5y ago
  It is rather cynical but also rather accurate to note that people like being warm in winter, and the Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission. They already have a core mission, it involves human souls. The environmentalists have faced stiff resistance in my life time not because anyone likes coal or oil, but because there were no alternatives. It isn't like the Catholics have ever had a point of doctrine like "and yea, your electricity shall only be sourced from fuels that are greater than 60% carbon by mass, for the atomic number 6 is especially holy!". They already have a longer term time horizon than most nations.
  - jimktrains2 5y ago
    > Catholic Church is not going to make environmentalism their core mission Being a good steward of nature is and has been a very important part of Catholic doctrine for a very long time.
    - fascistusa 5y ago
      Was this before or after helping the Nazi party?
    - conductr 5y ago
      Yet here we are, how does this improve the situation? I hold a cynical view as to the influence religion has on this particular subject as well. I view religion as a large corporation, they have finally realized the long term impact of CC will be bad for business. Just like corporate BODs they are increasingly asking management to put forth a climate strategy. And investment firms that are moving their portfolio away from fossil fuel, it’s just modern corporate policy to have a stance that protects shareholder value in the long term. But really it’s just something to point to when asked “what are you doing about the climate?” A bit of a rant there, but to reiterate, I don’t see how this influences action in a meaningful way. I’m glad they are doing it, it’s better than not.

vadfa 5y ago

How many CEOs are Catholic? :')

joshuaissac 5y ago
In the US, around 42%, according to a 2016 study. https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/217155978.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/217155978.pdf
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kgwgk 5y ago
  They report 29.5% Catholic CEOs in their sample. (42% is the share of Catholics in the Catholics plus Protestants subpopulation, the latter are 40.6% of their sample).
Aachen 5y ago
Christian parties do surprisingly well in mostly atheistic Germany, for example.

dr_dshiv 5y ago

Cool, maybe these Christian leaders will finally be accepting of voluntary birth control as a wise form of choosing life — e.g., by acting as a steward of nature and reducing poverty? (Ok, well, even if not, the gesture in support of environmental justice is appreciated)

magicroot75 5y ago
Thus is the curse of being a religion. You do one thing that general society helps. And then they just criticize another piece of your belief system. There's no system that will perfectly allow people to both find value and meaning in their world AND also promote totally free action of others. Thus we live in a contemporary world of non-religious people seeking out value (look at the current obsession in Silicon Valley with Stoicism, mindfulness, pyschadelics, etc). But Silicon Valley also tells their people that they can't use those methods to find an actual belief system of values. It's like, definitely always look for meaning and value in the universe, we like that. But, don't find it and a be bold about it. Catholics are against birth control because we're for a world in which human life is nourished, valued, and lifted up within the family. Not that it's seen as a problem to be dealt with. A knock on impact of that mentality is the sex becomes seen as a sacred act of deep value to humanity, an act with profound power and responsibility. Almost no Catholics suggest that we legally outlaw birth control. We recognize that fundamentally free agency should be left to moral agents (unless it cause a direct moral hazard to others like abortion, theft, dishonesty, etc). But why would we change our view on reproduction and the family? Moreso, birth control doesn't even do that great of a job at slower birth rates in developing nations.
- jl6 5y ago
  > Thus is the curse of being a religion. You do one thing that general society helps. And then they just criticize another piece of your belief system. You could treat it as a learning opportunity. Carry on doing the good stuff and stop doing the bad stuff?
  - Veen 5y ago
    Except, of course, they don't think the "bad stuff" is bad. They think the good stuff (contraception) is bad. The Pope can support climate change action because it doesn't really touch on Catholic beliefs, whereas contraception does.

jokoon 5y ago

That's big news. I'm atheist, but worldwide, the word of the pope always holds a lot of power. Climate change is mostly a large political issue, much more than racism or inequality, it's a much more large scale issue, which requires that people with a lot of influence need to speak. Not to mention that the Vatican, even with all the evils of religion, is still a place with a lot of thinkers.

analog31 5y ago

Great. Now tell the American bishops to call off the culture war. Catholics have instructions on how to resolve the dilemma where one candidate supports doctrine A, and the other candidate supports doctrine B. In plain terms, it's basically "choose your battles." This came to light when the dilemma of the day was abortion versus capital punishment and the poor. Owing largely to the culture war, American Catholics have provided decisive support to the party that calls global warming a hoax. This isn't a political statement on my part, but just a statistical one. My view is that the Church has quietly held a token position on global warming while concentrating its social influence on other matters. I don't have a definitive answer on this, and could of course be wrong, but choosing the wrong battle is a moral failure.

ArchStanton 5y ago
>Owing largely to the culture war, American Catholics have provided decisive support to the party that calls global warming a hoax. This isn't a political statement on my part, but just a statistical one. Than why are 44% of Catholics Democrat and only 37% Republican? https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/party-affiliation/ https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/party-aff... Methinks your own POV poisons your opinions.
- analog31 5y ago
  True, but if they all went Democratic, it would tip the scales considerably. The margins in many regions are a tiny number of percentage points, and the Senate is 50-50 right now. A small percentage, not even a nationwide majority, have given us a heavily biased supreme court. That's what I mean by decisive support. The Bishops could tip the scales if they were told to. This is about how the Pope could influence the situation. I don't know how any individual Catholic votes, and both party allegiances and voting patterns are merely crude attempts at getting a statistical foothold on the question.
  - ArchStanton 5y ago
    >True, but if they all went Democratic, it would tip the scales considerably. It would be a tricky thing. You'd have to convince Catholics that Oregon-style abortion law (legal right up until birth) was reasonable and that the normalization of mental illness was desirable (the current rage for transsexuals). OTOH, as a trans-national organization, I could see shifting the Catholic hierarchy into thinking that unlimited mass immigration to Western countries was desirable. More membership, more souls to save and all that.

ilrwbwrkhv 5y ago

Maybe equating Satan with global warming is the way here.

cletus 5y ago

Hot take: it doesn't matter who comes out in favour of stronger action on climate change. The only way we'll get significant change is when it becomes economic to do so. The world population or even a significant percentage of it won't change their behaviour altruistically even for a minor inconvenience and risk. New coal plants aren't built (mostly) and old ones are closing not because of altruism or a genuine concern for climate change. It's because other options are more economic, specifically LNG and solar. Now LNG isn't much better but it is better. Solar is definitely better. But what drove solar adoption over the last decade is the plunging price of panels, not altruism.

542458 5y ago
I don’t think this is strictly true. We banned dumping of waste in the ocean even though it remains the “cheapest” way of disposing of toxic waste. Governments can make it economic for companies and individuals to behave in more environmentally friendly ways, and will do so when enough political pressure arises (note that since we’re correcting for externalities, this is more economically efficient than letting pollution be “free”). To this end, coming out in favour of climate change action is useful.
- cletus 5y ago
  If you think about this, this too is just an economic motive. The cost of non-compliance (fines, prosecution, etc) multiplied by the risk of that happening is less than the cost of compliance, so it happens. People and companies break laws all the time when it's cheaper to do so. I can't help but think of Fight Club [1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE
ArchStanton 5y ago
>New coal plants aren't built The US isn't the world. https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-coal-power-plants
tomComb 5y ago
But we can take some action to make it economic to do so. For consumers, putting a price on carbon can make it simple and economic for them to chose greener options And for corporations, the EU has been working on various schemes to price carbon for EU companies and to put a corresponding penalty on companies from other countries that don't (to avoid disadvantaging their companies).

fascistusa 5y ago

There is a meme on reddit currently about how the after-church religious crowd are the worst human beings to serve as a server. So I find it quite hilarious that some people's argument is "25% catholic" with nothing else as though that is the end of the conversation. I find this hilarious so I am sure it isn't allowed here as it I don't speak like a robot and I am not on the spectrum.

spodek 5y ago

Four words from the Pope could have the greatest effect per effort of any act on our environmental problems: "You can use contraception." It won't solve all problems, but it will help a lot. There is plenty of scripture he could call on to justify it. One, for example, is that the prophecy of having as many descendants as grains of sand on the beach couldn't have meant all at once, because we wouldn't all fit. Decreasing the chance of that many descendants undermines the prophecy. Italy's low birth rate means Catholics are using birth control anyway, so people have figured it out.

WC3w6pXxgGd 5y ago
Do you apply this same logic to Islam or just to Catholicism?
thinkingemote 5y ago
A contrarian point of view would be that it's modern capitalism, consumerism and individualism (that supports contraception, abortion, divorce, etc) that has caused the climate emergency. Thus opposing the things that consumerism supports also helps fight for the environment. For most people doing this is harder than not and people will protect their investment.

tromp 5y ago

> Getting Biden's climate proposal done, though, will require the support of all 50 Democratic senators, including fellow Catholic Manchin. This appears to assume that all Republican senators will vote against the climate proposal, which I find overly pessimistic.

tmountain 5y ago
One of the GOP key characteristics is operating in lock step. They use climate change as a wedge issue. I would be shocked if any one of them voted off the party line on this issue.

fidesomnes 5y ago

It's amazing what a hard on NPR has for higher taxes and destroying economic activity. Imagine if they actually directed this propaganda to our enemies instead of us.

antattack 5y ago

Joe Manchin argues: "If they're eliminating fossils, and I'm finding out there's a lot of language in places they're eliminating fossils, which is very, very disturbing," he said, "because if you're sticking your head in the sand, and saying that fossil has to be eliminated in America, and they want to get rid of it, and thinking that's going to clean up the global climate, it won't clean it up all." How is that coherent at all?

bob229 5y ago

Funny how the anti Catholicism comments aren’t being banned for “inciting a religious flame war” like the comments on the nonsense Koran API were. Yet another example of Islamophilia. That said who takes the word of the Catholic Church seriously? One of the most corrupt and criminal organisations ever to exist. Just read Hitlers Pope by John Cornwell