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> Millions of Americans are miserable. The internet has “gotten worse” because Americans are not ok. I remember when this kind of stuff used to make me feel be

> Millions of Americans are miserable. The internet has “gotten worse” because Americans are not ok. I remember when this kind of stuff used to make me feel better because I felt like it "wasn't just me". Now it makes me feel worse, because I realize that no-one will "come and save us".

fortuna86 5y ago
Perhaps miserable people shouldn't be pushed together in a digital space surrounded by materials designed to make them more angry.
- Lammy 5y ago
  Perhaps instead we should construct a society where nobody has to be miserable.
  - cudima 5y ago
    How?
    - zhoujianfu 5y ago
      Universal Basic Income (just print the money) and open borders!
    - Lammy 5y ago
      I dunno, maybe the people running our economy could lay off the induced-scarcity a little? It’s not like our money’s value is tied to any tangible real-world thing, after all. They seem to think it builds character: https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/documents/education/pubs/wishes https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/documents/education/pubs/w... (PDF warning)
      - edmundsauto 5y ago
        On the other hand, humanity appears to have an endless capacity for hierarchy. In the absence of natural scarcity, humans create the artificial. Also, who are the people running the economy? I think it’s an emergent phenomenon of humans natural behavior, amplified by our current scale and low friction interconnectedness.
        Lammy 5y ago
        > Also, who are the people running the economy? I don’t know. I assume there has to be at least some intended direction for them to be able to write comics about it, but I am just a peon in this system :)
        leppr 5y ago
        The emergent phenomenons arise from an environment defined by certain rules and external factors. Many of those rules are defined by a small group of people (laws), and a very important external factor (money) is directly influenced by central banks. These people decide pretty directly how much and into what types of investments money should go.
      - makomk 5y ago
        While our money may not be tied to any tangible real-world thing, our ability to actually buy tangible real-world things with it absolutely and obviously is. I can't imagine most people would feel better off if they had twice the money on paper but couldn't afford anything more than they can now. Also, one really alarming thing about modern society is just how much social media, the press and populist politicians have been feeding miserable people conspiracy theories about how all their problems are created by a plot of a shadowy group of individuals to oppress them and could trivially be ended if those people were overthrown.
  - romankolpak 5y ago
    That seems utopian. Norway is among the happiest nations in the world, yet a guy once decided it’s a good idea to go to an island fully armed and kill a bunch of teenagers
    - mandmandam 5y ago
      ... A guy who consumed too much far-right wank, much of it from other countries. Especially America. And that was about the definition of an isolated incident, or the exception that proves the rule. So, I'm left wondering what your point is? You think utopia isn't something to strive for? We must accept our fate because of an isolated incident in a country that while much much better at taking care of its people than America is still far from actually a utopia?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - fortuna86 5y ago
    "Maybe we should just create a utopian society" isn't a real discussion to have.
    - Lammy 5y ago
      “Kids, you tried your best, and you failed miserably. The lesson is: never try.”
      - fortuna86 5y ago
        I find it a weird response to deny technology's role in making the problems we do have worse but simply saying "why don't we just fix all the previously unfixable problems in our society?" Is that really helpful to the discussion ?
peterburkimsher 5y ago
It makes me feel better, because there's more to fix :) Life was really bad for me about 13 years ago, and that means it's easier to relate to other peoples' suffering now. People have practical needs - food, shelter, a little money - but need community even more. Thanks to ambivalents pointing it out, I read the article, including Chekov's story of the little hammer. I also remembered UncleBob talking about code: "clean as you go" [1]. We can make the world a better place, but the solution isn't to pay someone else to do it professionally - we have to all take responsibility and fix our little parts of the world as we go along. We can also make it better by not only filing bug reports, but suggesting what to do instead. Then we'll all be saying "thank you" all the time! Treating others in the way that we want to be treated (not how they treat us), dying to ourselves, and giving thanks - that's a message from someone who did "come and save us", our Savior. I'm not very good at following his instructions though >_< [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaAMQVq01E&t=2021s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaAMQVq01E&t=2021s
- mistermann 5y ago
  > We can also make it better by not only filing bug reports, but suggesting what to do instead. Then we'll all be saying "thank you" all the time! I have a fairly long list of bug reports regarding reality, including suggestions of how things could be improved. Is there somewhere that I can file these such that they might get addressed, or at least considered?
  - peterburkimsher 5y ago
    There's 2 hard things in life: naming things (knowing who to tell) and cache invalidation (forgetting to tell them). When it's totally outside our control, we can always let the great Debugger know how things are going, and if there's a problem, ask to stop time and hack some solution in. We have to live with the consequences of that being answered though, so be careful what you pray for!
    - mistermann 5y ago
      The Great Debugger, how can one get in touch with this entity?
raverbashing 5y ago
But the internet is making more people miserable. It's not just their "average lousiness"
mistermann 5y ago
> Now it makes me feel worse, because I realize that no-one will "come and save us". I'm curious: why do you believe this? Of course it's not a particularly uncommon belief, but I am interested in where it comes from. Or, if it was intended more of a casual comment than an accurate prediction of the future, then I will simply ask for that: do you believe it is most likely that ~"no one will come and save us", and if so is a component of that belief based on a belief that ~it is not possible to save us?
- charles_f 5y ago
  What I mean is that I had this "feeling", not even a belief, that if things go bad for everyone, then whomever is in charge will finally realize that shit's going sideways, and pull the plug on it. I'm saying feeling rather than belief cause I don't think I ever really believed that ; instead it's probably more of a remnant from childhood when there was always someone to save us in the end. That story relates it better than I can: https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale > the final thousand feet was horrifying—steep sugar snow that collapsed beneath our feet as we battled upward, unable to down-climb, and unable to find protection or anchors. On the summit, with the immaculate expanse of the range unfolding in every direction, Scott turned to me and said, in complete seriousness, “I want my mom so bad right now.”
  - mistermann 5y ago
    > it's probably more of a remnant from childhood when there was always someone to save us in the end I have this very same feeling now and then. I wonder if you and I are the only ones. Or, is this particular way (how we are feeling it) the only manner in which this......whatever it is manifests in reality? Or might this be some component, one among perhaps thousands of others (or even more, or maybe much less) that keeps humanity at this local maxima trajectory that seems (so they say) headed for some sort of major calamity, on more than one front.

fortuna86 5y ago

Perhaps miserable people shouldn't be pushed together in a digital space surrounded by materials designed to make them more angry.

Lammy 5y ago
Perhaps instead we should construct a society where nobody has to be miserable.
- cudima 5y ago
  How?
  - zhoujianfu 5y ago
    Universal Basic Income (just print the money) and open borders!
  - Lammy 5y ago
    I dunno, maybe the people running our economy could lay off the induced-scarcity a little? It’s not like our money’s value is tied to any tangible real-world thing, after all. They seem to think it builds character: https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/documents/education/pubs/wishes https://www.bostonfed.org/-/media/documents/education/pubs/w... (PDF warning)
    - edmundsauto 5y ago
      On the other hand, humanity appears to have an endless capacity for hierarchy. In the absence of natural scarcity, humans create the artificial. Also, who are the people running the economy? I think it’s an emergent phenomenon of humans natural behavior, amplified by our current scale and low friction interconnectedness.
      - Lammy 5y ago
        > Also, who are the people running the economy? I don’t know. I assume there has to be at least some intended direction for them to be able to write comics about it, but I am just a peon in this system :)
      - leppr 5y ago
        The emergent phenomenons arise from an environment defined by certain rules and external factors. Many of those rules are defined by a small group of people (laws), and a very important external factor (money) is directly influenced by central banks. These people decide pretty directly how much and into what types of investments money should go.
    - makomk 5y ago
      While our money may not be tied to any tangible real-world thing, our ability to actually buy tangible real-world things with it absolutely and obviously is. I can't imagine most people would feel better off if they had twice the money on paper but couldn't afford anything more than they can now. Also, one really alarming thing about modern society is just how much social media, the press and populist politicians have been feeding miserable people conspiracy theories about how all their problems are created by a plot of a shadowy group of individuals to oppress them and could trivially be ended if those people were overthrown.
- romankolpak 5y ago
  That seems utopian. Norway is among the happiest nations in the world, yet a guy once decided it’s a good idea to go to an island fully armed and kill a bunch of teenagers
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    ... A guy who consumed too much far-right wank, much of it from other countries. Especially America. And that was about the definition of an isolated incident, or the exception that proves the rule. So, I'm left wondering what your point is? You think utopia isn't something to strive for? We must accept our fate because of an isolated incident in a country that while much much better at taking care of its people than America is still far from actually a utopia?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- fortuna86 5y ago
  "Maybe we should just create a utopian society" isn't a real discussion to have.
  - Lammy 5y ago
    “Kids, you tried your best, and you failed miserably. The lesson is: never try.”
    - fortuna86 5y ago
      I find it a weird response to deny technology's role in making the problems we do have worse but simply saying "why don't we just fix all the previously unfixable problems in our society?" Is that really helpful to the discussion ?

peterburkimsher 5y ago

It makes me feel better, because there's more to fix :) Life was really bad for me about 13 years ago, and that means it's easier to relate to other peoples' suffering now. People have practical needs - food, shelter, a little money - but need community even more. Thanks to ambivalents pointing it out, I read the article, including Chekov's story of the little hammer. I also remembered UncleBob talking about code: "clean as you go" [1]. We can make the world a better place, but the solution isn't to pay someone else to do it professionally - we have to all take responsibility and fix our little parts of the world as we go along. We can also make it better by not only filing bug reports, but suggesting what to do instead. Then we'll all be saying "thank you" all the time! Treating others in the way that we want to be treated (not how they treat us), dying to ourselves, and giving thanks - that's a message from someone who did "come and save us", our Savior. I'm not very good at following his instructions though >_< [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaAMQVq01E&t=2021s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaAMQVq01E&t=2021s

mistermann 5y ago
> We can also make it better by not only filing bug reports, but suggesting what to do instead. Then we'll all be saying "thank you" all the time! I have a fairly long list of bug reports regarding reality, including suggestions of how things could be improved. Is there somewhere that I can file these such that they might get addressed, or at least considered?
- peterburkimsher 5y ago
  There's 2 hard things in life: naming things (knowing who to tell) and cache invalidation (forgetting to tell them). When it's totally outside our control, we can always let the great Debugger know how things are going, and if there's a problem, ask to stop time and hack some solution in. We have to live with the consequences of that being answered though, so be careful what you pray for!
  - mistermann 5y ago
    The Great Debugger, how can one get in touch with this entity?

raverbashing 5y ago

But the internet is making more people miserable. It's not just their "average lousiness"

mistermann 5y ago

> Now it makes me feel worse, because I realize that no-one will "come and save us". I'm curious: why do you believe this? Of course it's not a particularly uncommon belief, but I am interested in where it comes from. Or, if it was intended more of a casual comment than an accurate prediction of the future, then I will simply ask for that: do you believe it is most likely that ~"no one will come and save us", and if so is a component of that belief based on a belief that ~it is not possible to save us?

charles_f 5y ago
What I mean is that I had this "feeling", not even a belief, that if things go bad for everyone, then whomever is in charge will finally realize that shit's going sideways, and pull the plug on it. I'm saying feeling rather than belief cause I don't think I ever really believed that ; instead it's probably more of a remnant from childhood when there was always someone to save us in the end. That story relates it better than I can: https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale > the final thousand feet was horrifying—steep sugar snow that collapsed beneath our feet as we battled upward, unable to down-climb, and unable to find protection or anchors. On the summit, with the immaculate expanse of the range unfolding in every direction, Scott turned to me and said, in complete seriousness, “I want my mom so bad right now.”
- mistermann 5y ago
  > it's probably more of a remnant from childhood when there was always someone to save us in the end I have this very same feeling now and then. I wonder if you and I are the only ones. Or, is this particular way (how we are feeling it) the only manner in which this......whatever it is manifests in reality? Or might this be some component, one among perhaps thousands of others (or even more, or maybe much less) that keeps humanity at this local maxima trajectory that seems (so they say) headed for some sort of major calamity, on more than one front.