4 ms·

Canadians Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig detained in China 3 yrs on way home

43 points by boboche 5y ago

betwixthewires 5y ago
The Chinese government doesn't care about speculation that this was retaliation. They might claim these men were arrested on legitimate grounds, but they want everyone to know why they were arrested, which is what the timing is about. It is a deterrent, "do not extradite our assets upon request."
Leary 5y ago
Couple of Canadian spies for the Princess of Huawei? Sure thing!
- liketochill 5y ago
  Is there any evidence they were spies? I read the one guy arranged Dennis Rodman’s trip to North Korea. They were said to be a former diplomat and a business man. How do any Canadians in the room feel about their business trips to China these days?
  - mthoms 5y ago
    There's no evidence they were spies. Unfortunately, most of the affordable flights to other parts of Asia connect through China these days. I'll be avoiding those connections now - even if it costs significantly more.
    - mandeepj 5y ago
      Are n’t airports neutral zones?
      - genocidicbunny 5y ago
        Is whether or not they're neutral ground something you wish to test with your freedom? If you have reason to avoid stepping foot in China, you have reason to avoid stepping foot in Chinese airports, even on international stopovers.
      - throw_away 5y ago
        Even entering the airspace of a hostile country isn't safe. Two incidents off the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Protasevich#Ryanair_Flight_4978 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Protasevich#Ryanair_Flig... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
      - liketochill 5y ago
        Airport in Canada wasn’t neutral for the huawei executive
- mthoms 5y ago
  There has been zero evidence presented that they were spies. The fact that they were detained within days of Meng's arrest and released within hours of her being set free should tell you all you need to know. The CCP has engaged in hostage taking because one of their elite members was arrested. At any rate, now that they are free - Canada can go ahead and ban Huawei 5G networks like the rest of the 5 eyes (save NZ I think?)
  - deadlyllama 5y ago
    NZ hasn't banned Huawei 5G but the cell networks have chosen Samsung (Spark), Nokia (Vodafone), and Ericsson (2degrees).
aaron695 5y ago
> but by putting them on the plane tonight, they've clearly acknowledged They haven't acknowledged. They easily could have waited a week or month. They have rushed to get them on the plane. It's a clear statement. Alternate theory is it's possible the USA forced them to do this as part of the swap.
adminscoffee 5y ago
sounds like canada should join the defense pact
goldenkey 5y ago
I see a lot of influencers acting like it's no big deal to travel to China. That it's as safe as any other Asian country. Meanwhile, for three years, China holds Western hostages. Not a place I'd want to visit even with the technological cities like Shenzhen, the historical sites, the beautiful landscape and the ancient culture being so alluring [1] I prefer to remain free* * And instead take my chances getting maimed by an American cop at a traffic stop or protest [2] ;-) [1] https://youtube.com/c/cnliziqi https://youtube.com/c/cnliziqi [2] https://youtu.be/QFeewU0HhNE https://youtu.be/QFeewU0HhNE
- ghuin 5y ago
  Do they really take Western hostages often? What are the chances as a European nobody of being dragged into a Chinese jail?
  - redis_mlc 5y ago
    It's basically certain if you try to operate a drone, or post to social media, or if you visit Xianjing, or if you visit a small village and the cops report your visit, or if you have more than a couple memory cards for your camera, or if a local wants to bump their social credit score, or if you ever worked as an English teacher. Think visiting Nazi Germany in 1944, but in 2021.
  - Barrin92 5y ago
    depending on the source the number of foreigners imprisoned in China over the last ten years seems to be about a few dozen to 200. About two million Europeans travel to China per year so very low. I'm German and have spent several months at a time in China over the last ten years. If you're just a random guy it's completely fine. Contrary to the other reply, posting on social media or teaching English doesn't land you in prison, and China isn't like Nazi Germany.

43 points by boboche 5y ago

The Chinese government doesn't care about speculation that this was retaliation. They might claim these men were arrested on legitimate grounds, but they want everyone to know why they were arrested, which is what the timing is about. It is a deterrent, "do not extradite our assets upon request."

Leary 5y ago

Couple of Canadian spies for the Princess of Huawei? Sure thing!

liketochill 5y ago
Is there any evidence they were spies? I read the one guy arranged Dennis Rodman’s trip to North Korea. They were said to be a former diplomat and a business man. How do any Canadians in the room feel about their business trips to China these days?
- mthoms 5y ago
  There's no evidence they were spies. Unfortunately, most of the affordable flights to other parts of Asia connect through China these days. I'll be avoiding those connections now - even if it costs significantly more.
  - mandeepj 5y ago
    Are n’t airports neutral zones?
    - genocidicbunny 5y ago
      Is whether or not they're neutral ground something you wish to test with your freedom? If you have reason to avoid stepping foot in China, you have reason to avoid stepping foot in Chinese airports, even on international stopovers.
    - throw_away 5y ago
      Even entering the airspace of a hostile country isn't safe. Two incidents off the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Protasevich#Ryanair_Flight_4978 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Protasevich#Ryanair_Flig... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
    - liketochill 5y ago
      Airport in Canada wasn’t neutral for the huawei executive
mthoms 5y ago
There has been zero evidence presented that they were spies. The fact that they were detained within days of Meng's arrest and released within hours of her being set free should tell you all you need to know. The CCP has engaged in hostage taking because one of their elite members was arrested. At any rate, now that they are free - Canada can go ahead and ban Huawei 5G networks like the rest of the 5 eyes (save NZ I think?)
- deadlyllama 5y ago
  NZ hasn't banned Huawei 5G but the cell networks have chosen Samsung (Spark), Nokia (Vodafone), and Ericsson (2degrees).

aaron695 5y ago

> but by putting them on the plane tonight, they've clearly acknowledged They haven't acknowledged. They easily could have waited a week or month. They have rushed to get them on the plane. It's a clear statement. Alternate theory is it's possible the USA forced them to do this as part of the swap.

adminscoffee 5y ago

sounds like canada should join the defense pact

goldenkey 5y ago

I see a lot of influencers acting like it's no big deal to travel to China. That it's as safe as any other Asian country. Meanwhile, for three years, China holds Western hostages. Not a place I'd want to visit even with the technological cities like Shenzhen, the historical sites, the beautiful landscape and the ancient culture being so alluring [1] I prefer to remain free* * And instead take my chances getting maimed by an American cop at a traffic stop or protest [2] ;-) [1] https://youtube.com/c/cnliziqi https://youtube.com/c/cnliziqi [2] https://youtu.be/QFeewU0HhNE https://youtu.be/QFeewU0HhNE

ghuin 5y ago
Do they really take Western hostages often? What are the chances as a European nobody of being dragged into a Chinese jail?
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  It's basically certain if you try to operate a drone, or post to social media, or if you visit Xianjing, or if you visit a small village and the cops report your visit, or if you have more than a couple memory cards for your camera, or if a local wants to bump their social credit score, or if you ever worked as an English teacher. Think visiting Nazi Germany in 1944, but in 2021.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  depending on the source the number of foreigners imprisoned in China over the last ten years seems to be about a few dozen to 200. About two million Europeans travel to China per year so very low. I'm German and have spent several months at a time in China over the last ten years. If you're just a random guy it's completely fine. Contrary to the other reply, posting on social media or teaching English doesn't land you in prison, and China isn't like Nazi Germany.