6 ms·

The takeaway from this thread is that there is no platform safe from this issue.

by Godel_unicode 5y ago

lotsofpulp 5y ago
The probability of the issue happening seems to be meaningfully far less on certain operating systems than others.
- Godel_unicode 5y ago
  I don't see how you can possibly make any meaningful conclusions about relative probability from this thread.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    It is not from this thread, but my experience over the last 15 to 20 years. I have seen lots and lots of people, including myself, close MacBook lids, toss it in a bag, and start walking. But I do not see that with non MacBooks. It was so notable to me that it led me to decide to look into switching to MacBook Airs.
    - Godel_unicode 5y ago
      And you believe your experience is statistically significant.
      - Phileosopher 5y ago
        n=1, but we still weight it x20 because we have the most data on it.
        Godel_unicode 5y ago
        I'm really exhausted by this trend of people adding the word "probability" to their argument because they think it makes it stronger. Just no.
reilly3000 5y ago
*except Macs. I daily drive my desktop with Linux and occasionally game with Windows (it’s set up to be my driver as well with WSL2, but that happens rarely). I’ll only use Mac laptops. I’ve screwed around with others, but for about 18 years they have been the only ones that have been reliable, with good build quality, and no molten backpacks yet.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I've had nothing but problems with Apple's "Power Nap" functionality. I remember three discrete issues with my 2014 MBP (Quartz would randomly crash out of naps when connected to external displays, the topcase frequently felt mysteriously warm and my media controls would freak out forcing me to close spotify/firefox before closing it) Ironically, the only time I've seen it behaving as-intended was when I had my T460p running MacOS with photo analysis disabled. I'm guessing it's an ACPI issue, since Apple's track record with the technology is shaky.
- wldlyinaccurate 5y ago
  I've had the opposite experience with Macbooks. WiFi randomly dropping out, battery dying overnight while the laptop is closed, external display settings not being persisted, randomly switching from my external microphone to the built-in one halfway through a call... Sometimes reading through these threads I feel like the only person in the world who has somehow had three faulty Macbooks in a row. I've now had three generations of XPS 13 with Ubuntu. They're not perfect (the battery drains over 3 or 4 days instead of overnight) but overall my experience has been much better.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  There are some people reporting problems with Macs on this thread... What is bad, because if there were one platform that would avoid this problem it would be Macs. But anyway, my phone does that once in a while too... Phones also shouldn't do it. It's not even a hard problem to solve. There is a single piece of code that wakes a device up, you just have to not call it everywhere. If you don't control all the code, just require some kind of permission, and don't go granting it to the team that writes the system updater.
laurent92 5y ago
Should airplanes forbid PC laptops? It’s more serious than laptops committing suicide in bags. It’s, anything with a high-energy battery can short itself and cause a fire. Worse, it could be malware or hardware. At this point I am surprised the vulnerability hasn’t been used by anyone.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Airplanes have bags/boxes to throw li-ion batteries into and extinguish any particular fire. The law is that you can only bring aboard Li-ion batteries of size 100 watt-hrs or smaller on any airplane (https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/lithium-batteries-more-100-watt-hours https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...). I think the airline crews are confident they can handle 100 watt-hours worth of burning, but no more than that!
  - drjasonharrison 5y ago
    You can't extinguish a lithium ion battery fire by smothering it. The fire creates its own oxygen. You can contain the fire, and you can immerse it in enough water that it cools below the burning temperature and shorts out through the water.
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      https://youtu.be/oa_yao1DC1U https://youtu.be/oa_yao1DC1U https://youtu.be/LCFsmHLDuyg https://youtu.be/LCFsmHLDuyg I'm not sure if they are smothering the fire. The strategy seems like it's just a safe place to keep the fire until later. You won't have buckets and buckets of water on an airplane. You need a solution to safely contain the fire and keep the passengers safe.
oliv3r 5y ago
but very easily fixed as written above :)

The takeaway from this thread is that there is no platform safe from this issue.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

The probability of the issue happening seems to be meaningfully far less on certain operating systems than others.

Godel_unicode 5y ago
I don't see how you can possibly make any meaningful conclusions about relative probability from this thread.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  It is not from this thread, but my experience over the last 15 to 20 years. I have seen lots and lots of people, including myself, close MacBook lids, toss it in a bag, and start walking. But I do not see that with non MacBooks. It was so notable to me that it led me to decide to look into switching to MacBook Airs.
  - Godel_unicode 5y ago
    And you believe your experience is statistically significant.
    - Phileosopher 5y ago
      n=1, but we still weight it x20 because we have the most data on it.
      - Godel_unicode 5y ago
        I'm really exhausted by this trend of people adding the word "probability" to their argument because they think it makes it stronger. Just no.

reilly3000 5y ago

*except Macs. I daily drive my desktop with Linux and occasionally game with Windows (it’s set up to be my driver as well with WSL2, but that happens rarely). I’ll only use Mac laptops. I’ve screwed around with others, but for about 18 years they have been the only ones that have been reliable, with good build quality, and no molten backpacks yet.

smoldesu 5y ago
I've had nothing but problems with Apple's "Power Nap" functionality. I remember three discrete issues with my 2014 MBP (Quartz would randomly crash out of naps when connected to external displays, the topcase frequently felt mysteriously warm and my media controls would freak out forcing me to close spotify/firefox before closing it) Ironically, the only time I've seen it behaving as-intended was when I had my T460p running MacOS with photo analysis disabled. I'm guessing it's an ACPI issue, since Apple's track record with the technology is shaky.
wldlyinaccurate 5y ago
I've had the opposite experience with Macbooks. WiFi randomly dropping out, battery dying overnight while the laptop is closed, external display settings not being persisted, randomly switching from my external microphone to the built-in one halfway through a call... Sometimes reading through these threads I feel like the only person in the world who has somehow had three faulty Macbooks in a row. I've now had three generations of XPS 13 with Ubuntu. They're not perfect (the battery drains over 3 or 4 days instead of overnight) but overall my experience has been much better.
marcosdumay 5y ago
There are some people reporting problems with Macs on this thread... What is bad, because if there were one platform that would avoid this problem it would be Macs. But anyway, my phone does that once in a while too... Phones also shouldn't do it. It's not even a hard problem to solve. There is a single piece of code that wakes a device up, you just have to not call it everywhere. If you don't control all the code, just require some kind of permission, and don't go granting it to the team that writes the system updater.

laurent92 5y ago

Should airplanes forbid PC laptops? It’s more serious than laptops committing suicide in bags. It’s, anything with a high-energy battery can short itself and cause a fire. Worse, it could be malware or hardware. At this point I am surprised the vulnerability hasn’t been used by anyone.

dragontamer 5y ago
Airplanes have bags/boxes to throw li-ion batteries into and extinguish any particular fire. The law is that you can only bring aboard Li-ion batteries of size 100 watt-hrs or smaller on any airplane (https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/items/lithium-batteries-more-100-watt-hours https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...). I think the airline crews are confident they can handle 100 watt-hours worth of burning, but no more than that!
- drjasonharrison 5y ago
  You can't extinguish a lithium ion battery fire by smothering it. The fire creates its own oxygen. You can contain the fire, and you can immerse it in enough water that it cools below the burning temperature and shorts out through the water.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    https://youtu.be/oa_yao1DC1U https://youtu.be/oa_yao1DC1U https://youtu.be/LCFsmHLDuyg https://youtu.be/LCFsmHLDuyg I'm not sure if they are smothering the fire. The strategy seems like it's just a safe place to keep the fire until later. You won't have buckets and buckets of water on an airplane. You need a solution to safely contain the fire and keep the passengers safe.

oliv3r 5y ago

but very easily fixed as written above :)