6 ms·

Imagine living in a country that allows you to destroy the environment for a fake currency. Your worldview is ridiculous.

slg 5y ago
This is an overly aggressive tone that will cause knee-jerk pushback, but there is an argument that it is exactly the thing we should expect of our government, to correct for externalities. This is effectively not that different than a company dumping chemical in the local river rather than disposing of them properly. They are encroaching on my rights to a livable planet for their own personal financial gain.
- fouric 5y ago
  The GP comment falsely implies that PoW is the only kind of cryptocurrency (and, well, the obnoxious and anti-intellectual tone). There are many reasons to dislike crypto in general, but "it destroys the environment" only applies to PoW-based systems and not crypto in general. Also, you should read the guidelines: "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - slg 5y ago
    What percentage of cryptocurrencies usage is not PoW? What are the negative environmental impacts of the other approaches? Being better than PoW doesn’t necessarily mean they stopped being wasteful. I rephrased that first sentence to remove the reference to HN voting. I was simply remarking how the tone will cause people to object to it quicker regardless of the merit of the underlying thought.
    - nightski 5y ago
      Bitcoin is obviously the top. But Ethereum and Cardano are 2nd/3rd and ETH is moving to PoS while ATA already is. Tether is 3rd and is a stablecoin, so it is PoS or PoW depending on the backing contract. So quite a bit actually. We are talking hundreds of billions in market cap at least.
olalonde 5y ago
The ban also applies to proof-of-stake cryptocurrencies.
monological 5y ago
How do you think the dollar keeps its value? Do you understand that the reason it has value is because it’s backed by the US military, which provides peace and stability for industry to consume a vast amount of energy to produce goods that get shipped around using fossil fuel? Have you calculated the total energy expenditure of the entire US financial system, direct and indirect, and then compare it to proof-of-work calculations? No. No you haven’t. Don’t just parrot what the current-day zeitgeist told you to think.
- carnitine 5y ago
  I don’t get it. All of that energy expenditure not only backs the dollar, but as you say also provides goods, services and a high standard of living to millions of people. The energy expenditure of Bitcoin only backs Bitcoin.
  - monological 5y ago
    If crypto was actually adopted as a means of buying and selling real world goods, instead of just being held as a speculative asset, then it would consume much less energy and be more efficient than the entire system, namely the military, that props up the value of the dollar. And that’s just the US military. Of course, the reason why you’re able to mine in the first place is because we have peace, due to the military. So calculating becomes a little more complicated than just crypto consumption versus military consumption. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_usage_of_the_United_States_military https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_usage_of_the_United_S... https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-emits-less-than-2-of-the-worlds-military-industrial-complex-carbon-emissions-2021 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-emits-less-than-2-of...
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      How can you possibly imagine adoption of Bitcoin would end the US army? The US army existed for hundreds of years on the gold standard. World wars were fought on the gold standard. Exactly, step my step, please explain how adoption of bitcoin would reduce military energy consumption.
TheGigaChad 5y ago
Imagine if you are a soyboy nocoiner. Oh way, just go to the mirror and you will see one.
notapenny 5y ago
Well just because one thing in a space isn't great, it doesn't mean that they all are. There are plenty of alternatives to BTC for example that are much "greener". Granted, crypto is a relatively new technology and some of that stuff needs to be figured out. And whether or not its fake, is in the eye of the beholder. It has value, because we pretend it has value, but that's true for many things. Maybe not be so judgemental of other people's worldviews.
dnautics 5y ago
Imagine living in a country that drops depleted uranium on civilians as part of it's programme to hegemonize its 'real' currency! Or living in a country that continuously devalues its currency, forcing exponential consumption, thus stealing from the poor to give to the rich and destroying the environment while at it?
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I think you're thinking of the wrong country there.

slg 5y ago

This is an overly aggressive tone that will cause knee-jerk pushback, but there is an argument that it is exactly the thing we should expect of our government, to correct for externalities. This is effectively not that different than a company dumping chemical in the local river rather than disposing of them properly. They are encroaching on my rights to a livable planet for their own personal financial gain.

fouric 5y ago
The GP comment falsely implies that PoW is the only kind of cryptocurrency (and, well, the obnoxious and anti-intellectual tone). There are many reasons to dislike crypto in general, but "it destroys the environment" only applies to PoW-based systems and not crypto in general. Also, you should read the guidelines: "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."[1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- slg 5y ago
  What percentage of cryptocurrencies usage is not PoW? What are the negative environmental impacts of the other approaches? Being better than PoW doesn’t necessarily mean they stopped being wasteful. I rephrased that first sentence to remove the reference to HN voting. I was simply remarking how the tone will cause people to object to it quicker regardless of the merit of the underlying thought.
  - nightski 5y ago
    Bitcoin is obviously the top. But Ethereum and Cardano are 2nd/3rd and ETH is moving to PoS while ATA already is. Tether is 3rd and is a stablecoin, so it is PoS or PoW depending on the backing contract. So quite a bit actually. We are talking hundreds of billions in market cap at least.

olalonde 5y ago

The ban also applies to proof-of-stake cryptocurrencies.

monological 5y ago

How do you think the dollar keeps its value? Do you understand that the reason it has value is because it’s backed by the US military, which provides peace and stability for industry to consume a vast amount of energy to produce goods that get shipped around using fossil fuel? Have you calculated the total energy expenditure of the entire US financial system, direct and indirect, and then compare it to proof-of-work calculations? No. No you haven’t. Don’t just parrot what the current-day zeitgeist told you to think.

carnitine 5y ago
I don’t get it. All of that energy expenditure not only backs the dollar, but as you say also provides goods, services and a high standard of living to millions of people. The energy expenditure of Bitcoin only backs Bitcoin.
- monological 5y ago
  If crypto was actually adopted as a means of buying and selling real world goods, instead of just being held as a speculative asset, then it would consume much less energy and be more efficient than the entire system, namely the military, that props up the value of the dollar. And that’s just the US military. Of course, the reason why you’re able to mine in the first place is because we have peace, due to the military. So calculating becomes a little more complicated than just crypto consumption versus military consumption. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_usage_of_the_United_States_military https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_usage_of_the_United_S... https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-emits-less-than-2-of-the-worlds-military-industrial-complex-carbon-emissions-2021 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-emits-less-than-2-of...
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    How can you possibly imagine adoption of Bitcoin would end the US army? The US army existed for hundreds of years on the gold standard. World wars were fought on the gold standard. Exactly, step my step, please explain how adoption of bitcoin would reduce military energy consumption.

TheGigaChad 5y ago

Imagine if you are a soyboy nocoiner. Oh way, just go to the mirror and you will see one.

notapenny 5y ago

Well just because one thing in a space isn't great, it doesn't mean that they all are. There are plenty of alternatives to BTC for example that are much "greener". Granted, crypto is a relatively new technology and some of that stuff needs to be figured out. And whether or not its fake, is in the eye of the beholder. It has value, because we pretend it has value, but that's true for many things. Maybe not be so judgemental of other people's worldviews.

dnautics 5y ago

Imagine living in a country that drops depleted uranium on civilians as part of it's programme to hegemonize its 'real' currency! Or living in a country that continuously devalues its currency, forcing exponential consumption, thus stealing from the poor to give to the rich and destroying the environment while at it?

sudosysgen 5y ago
I think you're thinking of the wrong country there.