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Votes in a bug tracker don't represent the priorities of developers or even a representative audience of users. Yes, it's a known issue, but there are trade-off

by jdub 5y ago

Votes in a bug tracker don't represent the priorities of developers or even a representative audience of users. Yes, it's a known issue, but there are trade-offs and a lot of work involved. Most people just aren't aware of the complexity involved in file chooser implementations and APIs. The file chooser issue is more often raised in the context of internet abuse than good faith user requests. That doesn't mean it's not real, it just means it's fodder for precisely the kind of document we're responding to.

weberer 5y ago
>Votes in a bug tracker don't represent the priorities of ... a representative audience of users >The file chooser issue is more often raised in the context of internet abuse than good faith user requests What are you basing this on? That sounds incredibly dismissive. I think the core of the issue is that you're so out of touch with your users, that you're mistaking a highly requested feature with hostility. Maybe a user survey would be a good idea to bridge the gap. I think one large discrepancy is that this only affects a subset of users who frequently handle a large amount of images. In this example, it is users of image boards. But it also includes artist, photographers, etc. Not so much professional programmers. But to those who are affected, they are hindered greatly. I also see an issue with your idea that there are "good faith" and "bad faith" feature requests. This seems like a really unhealthy way to look at things. There is no conspiracy that there are a bunch of people out there that want to give you a bunch of work to do just to mess with you. 100% of these people are honestly affected by the issue and would like it resolved.
- jdub 5y ago
  Everyone knows that a richer file chooser is a desirable, highly requested feature and has been for years. There's no question about that, and no one's being dismissive about that. Actually fixing it is a whole other matter. Genuine user requests are not made in bad faith. Stupid internet abuse is bad faith. Like I said: This issue, and others like it, mostly comes up as thoughtless abuse, not genuine user requests. You seem like you're trying to convince me that it's a legitimate issue. I already know that. GNOME developers already know that.
  - pseudalopex 5y ago
    They're trying to get you to substantiate your claim it's almost never raised in good faith. It's an extraordinary claim.
- BrightGlow 5y ago
  >What are you basing this on? >There is no conspiracy that there are a bunch of people out there that want to give you a bunch of work to do just to mess with you. 100% of these people are honestly affected by the issue and would like it resolved. I don't know if you noticed, but the wiki article appears to include instructions for 4chan users on how to use this issue to troll and rile up Linux users. If you include whoever wrote that article and whichever 4chan users have read it then it's probably a good deal less than 100%. And honestly I've seen this trolling on reddit and hacker news pop up before several times before, almost every time the file chooser gets mentioned it seems to be a result of some 4chan trolling. Of course the issue is going to get locked if it's getting brigaded by 4chan trolls. If people honestly wanted to get it resolved, they would have written a merge request for it.
  - h_anna_h 5y ago
    Patches for it have been submitted but they were never merged. Some users even patch gtk themselves.
    - BrightGlow 5y ago
      Can you please show me one of these merge requests that was submitted? If there is any chance of it getting merged, the patch should be against GTK4 master.
      - h_anna_h 5y ago
        There have been various in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141154 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141154, first one in 2011 I believe. There are a few more not mentioned there, such as https://github.com/Dudemanguy/gtk https://github.com/Dudemanguy/gtk and https://gist.github.com/ahodesuka/01213036b58e510dc074 https://gist.github.com/ahodesuka/01213036b58e510dc074 I personally don't care as one can use flatpak portals nowadays (qt makes it really easy for non-flatpak applications to use, but I haven't seen how I can do it in non-flatpak gtk applications).
        5y ago

by jdub 5y ago

weberer 5y ago

>Votes in a bug tracker don't represent the priorities of ... a representative audience of users >The file chooser issue is more often raised in the context of internet abuse than good faith user requests What are you basing this on? That sounds incredibly dismissive. I think the core of the issue is that you're so out of touch with your users, that you're mistaking a highly requested feature with hostility. Maybe a user survey would be a good idea to bridge the gap. I think one large discrepancy is that this only affects a subset of users who frequently handle a large amount of images. In this example, it is users of image boards. But it also includes artist, photographers, etc. Not so much professional programmers. But to those who are affected, they are hindered greatly. I also see an issue with your idea that there are "good faith" and "bad faith" feature requests. This seems like a really unhealthy way to look at things. There is no conspiracy that there are a bunch of people out there that want to give you a bunch of work to do just to mess with you. 100% of these people are honestly affected by the issue and would like it resolved.

jdub 5y ago
Everyone knows that a richer file chooser is a desirable, highly requested feature and has been for years. There's no question about that, and no one's being dismissive about that. Actually fixing it is a whole other matter. Genuine user requests are not made in bad faith. Stupid internet abuse is bad faith. Like I said: This issue, and others like it, mostly comes up as thoughtless abuse, not genuine user requests. You seem like you're trying to convince me that it's a legitimate issue. I already know that. GNOME developers already know that.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  They're trying to get you to substantiate your claim it's almost never raised in good faith. It's an extraordinary claim.
BrightGlow 5y ago
>What are you basing this on? >There is no conspiracy that there are a bunch of people out there that want to give you a bunch of work to do just to mess with you. 100% of these people are honestly affected by the issue and would like it resolved. I don't know if you noticed, but the wiki article appears to include instructions for 4chan users on how to use this issue to troll and rile up Linux users. If you include whoever wrote that article and whichever 4chan users have read it then it's probably a good deal less than 100%. And honestly I've seen this trolling on reddit and hacker news pop up before several times before, almost every time the file chooser gets mentioned it seems to be a result of some 4chan trolling. Of course the issue is going to get locked if it's getting brigaded by 4chan trolls. If people honestly wanted to get it resolved, they would have written a merge request for it.
- h_anna_h 5y ago
  Patches for it have been submitted but they were never merged. Some users even patch gtk themselves.
  - BrightGlow 5y ago
    Can you please show me one of these merge requests that was submitted? If there is any chance of it getting merged, the patch should be against GTK4 master.
    - h_anna_h 5y ago
      There have been various in https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141154 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=141154, first one in 2011 I believe. There are a few more not mentioned there, such as https://github.com/Dudemanguy/gtk https://github.com/Dudemanguy/gtk and https://gist.github.com/ahodesuka/01213036b58e510dc074 https://gist.github.com/ahodesuka/01213036b58e510dc074 I personally don't care as one can use flatpak portals nowadays (qt makes it really easy for non-flatpak applications to use, but I haven't seen how I can do it in non-flatpak gtk applications).
      - 5y ago